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Message
We Should Increase Law School to 4 or Even 5 Years
Posted on 12/19/17 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 12/19/17 at 3:57 pm
My fellow partners agree; there is a noticeable decline in the ability of recent law school graduates to enter the courtroom, literally and figuratively through motions practice and other pre-trial.
I don’t see how we could curb the last year of law school without prejudicing students when they take the bar exam, so I recommend we desperately need a fourth or even fifth year of law school more akin to an apprenticeship in order to bridge this gap between young barrister and capable trial attorney.
Some of you will get a ‘free’ internship working for Dudley Debossier or Gordon; others will have to make up the gap through clinics in law school. The problem is, not all schools are created equal when it comes to clinics.
Doctors restore health to people. I concede this is truly the most precious commodity. Lawyers restore and protect your patrimony, the second most important commodity whether people acknowledge it or not.
It’s time we enacted a practical apprenticeship like our counterparts in med school have had for years.
I don’t see how we could curb the last year of law school without prejudicing students when they take the bar exam, so I recommend we desperately need a fourth or even fifth year of law school more akin to an apprenticeship in order to bridge this gap between young barrister and capable trial attorney.
Some of you will get a ‘free’ internship working for Dudley Debossier or Gordon; others will have to make up the gap through clinics in law school. The problem is, not all schools are created equal when it comes to clinics.
Doctors restore health to people. I concede this is truly the most precious commodity. Lawyers restore and protect your patrimony, the second most important commodity whether people acknowledge it or not.
It’s time we enacted a practical apprenticeship like our counterparts in med school have had for years.
33
Posted on 12/19/17 at 3:59 pm to RFK
I've also noticed a pretty serious decline in the job seeking abilities of 2Ls as well.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 3:59 pm to RFK
quote:
We Should Increase Law School to 4 or Even 5 Years
frick that. Let them do it the engineering route. Provisionally license them under a practicing attorney, then give them a license after a prerequisite number of years and a more advanced test of their knowledge.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:00 pm to RFK
No it should remain 3 years but the last year should be more like what a medical resident does - real world experience vs. another wasted year in the classroom.
4-5 years would be asinine.
4-5 years would be asinine.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:00 pm to RFK
quote:
ability of recent law school graduates to enter the courtroom, literally and figuratively through motions practice and other pre-trial.
If the 4th year is used to teach how to do these things then I would spport it
Generally, though, law school does not teach one how to practice law
The best way to learn is from older attorneys or just trial and lots of error
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:01 pm to RFK
This should be moved to the Law Board. Of course there is a decline in ability. Happens anytime you have an overabundance of pupils feeding into the system.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:01 pm to NYNolaguy1
50% of lawyers or more don't litigate
hell 50% of litigators don't litigate
hell 50% of litigators don't litigate
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:01 pm to RFK
Why someone would want to pay an extra 150 grand for 4 years of school to make 45k a year for 10 years is beyond me.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:02 pm to RFK
quote:
It’s time we enacted a practical apprenticeship like our counterparts in med school have had for years.
You think Lawyers and Doctors are comparable?
This post was edited on 12/19/17 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:03 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
hell 50% of litigators don't litigate
I would imagine the OP was directing the inept comment toward the people practicing law.
This post was edited on 12/19/17 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:04 pm to RFK
Everything that I learned in Law School, at least that was useful in actual practice, can be taught in 1 year. The "electives" and all that - can be learned during apprenticeship, which is badly, badly needed. So, 1 year of "mandatory" courses, 1 year of electives and some sort of internship/externship, work-study with courts, government agencies, law firms, and then 1 year training wheel, supervised practice - part-time of course, continuing the work study - more or less working 1/3 of the time, class 1/3 of the time and studying for the bar 1/3 of the time.
That would be a decent model. And you would have to weed out the bad eggs early, so 1L would have to be like old school LSU 1L for it to be fair.
That would be a decent model. And you would have to weed out the bad eggs early, so 1L would have to be like old school LSU 1L for it to be fair.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:05 pm to RFK
I think law school needs to change the way it's taught, not have its duration increased.
They don't teach you shite in regards to actually trying a case. They don't really teach you how to work with the opposing attorney like you will have to 99% of the time, it's more "bend them to your will" instead of find the right solution. I'm still what could be considered as fresh out of school, and you can spot new attorney's bend them to you will attitude from a mile away, and the judges will shoot them down 9/10 times.
Why not show students how to file suits, how the clerk's office works, or how to prosecute a case from start to finish? Oh, it's because I need to know how to recite Civil Code article 2315 and all the law involving intentional torts ver batim.
There's a steep learning curve on law suits and the courts function that new attorneys have no idea how to do when they come out. The current model doesn't make sense.
They don't teach you shite in regards to actually trying a case. They don't really teach you how to work with the opposing attorney like you will have to 99% of the time, it's more "bend them to your will" instead of find the right solution. I'm still what could be considered as fresh out of school, and you can spot new attorney's bend them to you will attitude from a mile away, and the judges will shoot them down 9/10 times.
Why not show students how to file suits, how the clerk's office works, or how to prosecute a case from start to finish? Oh, it's because I need to know how to recite Civil Code article 2315 and all the law involving intentional torts ver batim.
There's a steep learning curve on law suits and the courts function that new attorneys have no idea how to do when they come out. The current model doesn't make sense.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:08 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
I would imagine the OP was directing the inept comment toward the people practicing law.
I don't know if you're saying people who are in lit aren't practicing law or something more innocuous, but my point is that him seeing young attorneys who suck in the courtroom, or even in motion practice, is pretty scant evidence that we need to radically overhaul law schools.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:10 pm to RFK
Or maybe considering the number of law grads who can't get a job... the number of law school slots should be cut in half. Close a bunch of crappy law schools, and make the remaining ones harder. If you can increase the teaching level, maybe you can combine the current 3 years into 2.5 years and leave half a year for internships or whatever.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:10 pm to RFK
They should just make the admission requirements more stringent. It's absurd how many people I know in law school who have absolutely no business being there
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:11 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Or maybe considering the number of law grads who can't get a job... the number of law school slots should be cut in half. Close a bunch of crappy law schools, and make the remaining ones harder. If you can increase the teaching level, maybe you can combine the current 3 years into 2.5 years and leave half a year for internships or whatever.
here is a real solution
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:12 pm to RFK
I think lawyers should be against the law
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:13 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
my point is that him seeing young attorneys who suck in the courtroom, or even in motion practice, is pretty scant evidence that we need to radically overhaul law schools.
I think you caught my meaning. My point was that I thought the OP meant more than just the litigators who are sucking out of law school. The problem is that law school teaches law, not how to be a lawyer. If it makes any sense the wife (an atty) agrees with the OP that something needs a change.
This post was edited on 12/19/17 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:13 pm to Captain Crackysack
quote:
They should just make the admission requirements more stringent. It's absurd how many people I know in law school who have absolutely no business being there
Which is why this whole "3L year needs to be law vocational training" thing is only somewhat reasonable.
People who do well won't need it. They'll be at firms with programs in place to bring young lawyers up to speed. Savvy solos fresh out of law school won't need tutorials on how to handle hearings or make filings either - they're smart and they'll figure it out quickly. I think the target audience by this stuff is therefore pretty small.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 4:15 pm to RFK
This decline isn't pigeon holed to just Law students. This is being seen in students of all majors across the board. This will only increase as we continue to coddle the american youth of today.
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