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lostinbr
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
3154 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

I may have been out of the corporate world to long. If you are paid to do a job and you do that job to satisfaction, why in the hell would it matter where you live as far as compensation.

You are paid to do a job in a certain location. If you decide to do that job in a different location, your company can negotiate a salary that’s consistent with the labor market in that area. If they lowball you, you can quit.
quote:

Seems like socialism to me.

It’s not.
quote:

"You do the job as good or better than employee X but you dont need as much to live so you get less" Sounds fricked up to me

Do you think it’s fricked up that people in America get paid more to do the same job as their counterparts in India? Because it’s the same thing.

I think some of you are severely underestimating the premium these tech companies are paying just so that employees can live in Silicon Valley. A $200k employee who moves from that area to a lower-COL part of the country can easily take a $50k+ pay cut, increase their standard of living, and double their disposable income. It’s a win-win. Or they can stay in the area where they were hired to work and keep their current salary out of principle.

This is literally how companies have been determining regional salary brackets for decades. It’s only different now because people are moving without changing roles. The idea that each employee has some sort of intrinsic value to the company is a myth. Your value is based on the labor market, plain and simple.
This post was edited on 9/17 at 7:58 am


Crawdaddy
USA Fan
Slidell. The jewel of Louisiana
Member since Sep 2006
16886 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
Just keep "residence" at the higher cost location and travel in a camper to the most desired locations


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baldona
Auburn Fan
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
13148 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

You do the job as good or better than employee X but you dont need as much to live so you get less" Sounds fricked up to me


It’s not that, you are over thinking it. It’s very simple supply and demand. Many people live somewhere because that’s where their industry or job is located. If you can live anywhere, many people would take less pay. For instance, there’s very few computer programming jobs in Montana but if you can WFH you could live in Montana. So would you work in San Fran or take less money to live in Montana?

Think about it this way, remove COL and how is the job market? Not everyone in tech wants to live in Silocon Valley but enough money can persuade anyone.

This is similar to pro ball players. Some Pro’s choose less money to win or live where they want. Or simply due to salary cap. Pay is not 100% tied to ability.


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30
Salmon
USA Fan
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
74100 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

"You do the job as good or better than employee X but you dont need as much to live so you get less" Sounds fricked up to me


some 12 year old in China is emphatically agreeing with you right now

also you have no idea what socialism is
This post was edited on 9/17 at 8:02 am


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50
lotik
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2018
179 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
If the current model continues, companies will just expand their hiring ranges. They could get an employee with same knowledge at a lower rate in areas outside of their corporate office.


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baldona
Auburn Fan
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
13148 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

As I said before, I think the shift to WFH will ultimately level wages across the country, but something that hasn't been touched on is the fact that the employee has leverage too.


I could see an even larger disparity happening also. I don’t know what will happen and it will vary by career.

But for example, nurses and doctors sometimes are paid more to work in rural areas. The demand is low for Doctors in big cities but high for rural doctors so you can make more working in a rural setting. My only point is, there’s no normal.

But let’s say a Silicon Valley job normally pays $200k but offers $150k to work remote. I could see some situations where the $150k is much more favorable and therefore that $200k job now has to be $250k to get people into the office.


USMEagles
Southern Miss Fan
Member since Jan 2018
4357 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

That means that if you make $175k, move from the Bay Area to Hattiesberg, maintain the same standard of living, and don’t take a pay cut, you have an additional $100k in disposable income.

That goes a long way toward paying down debt or retiring.


You're making my point for me. Say I have $80,000 in student loan debt. The fact that I can get a house for $150,000 in Hattiesburg doesn't really help me if salaries there are scaled down to match those supposed cost-of-living numbers. My $80,000 debt (and the $750,000 or so I need to retire) are constants. My mortgage is a variable, but it's only a fraction of my real expenses. Cost-of-living calculators have a huge blind spot with respect to this.


The Third Leg
Iowa Fan
Idiot Out Wandering Around
Member since May 2014
6403 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
VMware is living on their name and install base and Dell ownership. They’re not innovating much any longer, so I’m not surprised they would make moves like this to boost EFO.


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01
TypoKnig
Member since Aug 2011
8503 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
Random work from home scenario:

If you get hurt at home while working remotely, are you eligible for a Worker’s Comp claim?
This post was edited on 9/17 at 8:47 am


50_Tiger
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Dallas TX
Member since Jan 2016
31029 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
Every company that outsources it shite to India is met almost instantly with customer service / quality related issues. INCLUDING MY OWN.


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Paul Allen
Notre Dame Fan
Montauk, NY
Member since Nov 2007
63832 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
I posted that article on the travel board. Yes, it was an interesting interview.


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Capstone2017
Alabama Fan
I love lead paint- PokeyTiger
Member since Dec 2013
2223 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
I don't understand why people can't figure this out. There a billion Indians, you don't think some of them are as qualified as the average American? Wfh will end or lead to outsourcing no in between..


wareaglepete
Auburn Fan
Essential Land
Member since Dec 2012
4517 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

A $200k employee who moves from that area to a lower-COL part of the country can easily take a $50k+ pay cut,


There is something else to consider. What is the company saving with you working remotely? Let’s say that the company is leasing a large six-story office building in a high rent area like Silicon Valley. If they have everyone go remote, they can vacate that space at the end of their lease. Will those cost savings that the employee is providing them by doing their work from home be considered. It’s a wash if you ask me. But, the corporations won’t talk about this.


deathvalleytiger10
Member since Sep 2009
3021 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

They’ll quickly figure out they can pay people even less to work remotely..... from Mumbai.



I am surprised at how many people aren't getting this. So many friends working from home now and say their employers are considering making it permanent. They are thrilled with it.

I tell them you aren't thinking this through. Pretty soon you will be just employee #107 that logs in and does work. Hmm, they can replace you with someone in India, at 1/3 the cost, no benefits, and no HR problems to deal with?

Better fight to get back into the office.


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01
lostinbr
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
3154 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

You're making my point for me. Say I have $80,000 in student loan debt. The fact that I can get a house for $150,000 in Hattiesburg doesn't really help me if salaries there are scaled down to match those supposed cost-of-living numbers. My $80,000 debt (and the $750,000 or so I need to retire) are constants.

I think you’re missing my point. You’re right, if your salary is scaled down to match the cost of living in Hattiesburg, you’re no better off in terms of paying down that student loan debt or saving for retirement. But you’re also not any worse off. It’s a wash. That’s the entire point.

Now, you might say “then why would I bother to move from Palo Alto to Hattiesburg?” That would be a good question, and everybody has their own reasons. For many people, the decision to move from the Bay Area to a lower-COL area will be financially-driven. If you take away that financial incentive, they might just decide to stay put.

This is where the company has to decide on its priorities. If the company really wants to reap some cost savings by encouraging people to work remotely, they might incentivize it by meeting in the middle. So they pay you more than the cost of living adjustment in Hattiesburg, but less than the going rate in Silicon Valley. Maybe this gives the employee an additional $25k towards paying down debt, retirement, or bar tabs while also saving the company $25k in operating cost. Win-win.

If the company decides they would rather keep people close to the office than overpay for the labor markets in remote areas, they won’t budge at all. Ultimately the market will sort itself out as each company decides what they are willing to pay employees in various markets.
quote:

My mortgage is a variable, but it's only a fraction of my real expenses. Cost-of-living calculators have a huge blind spot with respect to this.

This is simply not true in places like the Bay Area. Your mortgage may be a fraction of your real expenses, because you live in a low-COL area. Housing costs in the San Francisco metro area are 5x higher than most places in Mississippi. Housing accounts for a much larger portion of the average worker’s expenses in that area, which - again - is the point.


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Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
21856 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

But let’s say a Silicon Valley job normally pays $200k but offers $150k to work remote. I could see some situations where the $150k is much more favorable and therefore that $200k job now has to be $250k to get people into the office.
Why would they staff onsite in that scenario? If the job can be done remotely just pay everyone who does that job within the same range (say 150-200k), and it's up to them where they live. Why would you pay someone more to work onsite, if they can perform the same work offsite? Obviously you will want some roles onsite, but I don't see the point in paying a role more to be onsite, if they can perform the same work offsite.


Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
21856 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

I don't understand why people can't figure this out. There a billion Indians, you don't think some of them are as qualified as the average American? Wfh will end or lead to outsourcing no in between..
I don't understand why you can't figure out that data integrity is very important in some fields, and they don't want protected information to be accessed outside of the country

I work for a consulting firm and all of our work is done remotely, in our contracts with clients it is stated that we will not perform any work in countries outside of the US.


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shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
79479 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

Because you don't get the same value from a nurse working remotely.
But I guess the question is what's the difference if it's remote or not? I don't why the reasons that would matter.

To satisfy based on your question, instead of nurse, some dude who works in IT and maybe works from home in that podunk Arkansas town is still not going to make nearly as much as some dude who works in IT in NYC.

quote:

Of course CoL factors into the market
Isn't that all employers are trying to do here, factor CoL into the salary, which again, is a fairly standard thing?



lostinbr
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
3154 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

Why would they staff onsite in that scenario? If the job can be done remotely just pay everyone who does that job within the same range (say 150-200k), and it's up to them where they live. Why would you pay someone more to work onsite, if they can perform the same work offsite? Obviously you will want some roles onsite, but I don't see the point in paying a role more to be onsite, if they can perform the same work offsite.

I think you would see this come into play more for certain roles that may require an on-site presence, but still compete with other remote roles for personnel. In other words, someone might have the right skill set to do either “Job A” or “Job B”. Both jobs paid $200k to be on-site pre-pandemic. Now, Job A can be done remotely for $150k, but Job B still requires an on-site presence. This could potentially mean Job B has to pay more to compete with the WFH advantages of Job A.

You could say the same thing about managerial positions as well. Once people move to remote WFH, it might take a significant pay bump to get them back into the office.


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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
20386 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

Isn't that all employers are trying to do here, factor CoL into the salary, which again, is a fairly standard thing?
An employer factors CoL into salaries by expanding the pool of potential employees to include non-locals. Digging into an employee's living arrangements when it is not relevant to the job in order to renegotiate their salary downward is somewhat off-putting IMO.

In other words, as an employee I would rather be told that, due to an increase in remote work, I will naturally be competing against a larger labor market. That's an easier pill to swallow than being asked to report how much my house cost so they can justify paying me less. And if I lie there will be "severe ramifications".


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