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USMEagles
Southern Miss Fan
Member since Jan 2018
4365 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
It's funny how Hattiesburg gets dragged into this. The whole work-from-home thing has coincided with me moving, and at the start of the process I suggested to my wife that we might as well live someplace cheap. Hattiesburg was one of the two or three places I mentioned.

I was imagining living in Hattiesburg on the money I make in Atlanta. The cash would've really piled up, and there's no way my employer would have pulled some cost-of-living shite.

Unfortunately my wife still wants to live near her family.


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02
Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
20407 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

A nurse in NYC is going to make considerably more than a nurse in some podunk town in Arkansas. How is this any different?
Because you don't get the same value from a nurse working remotely.
quote:

People are paid based on the market/cost of living in their region in I'm sure every profession, this is nothing new.

People are paid what they agree to be paid. Of course CoL factors into the market, and an employer has every right to work the market when conditions change. I'm just saying that flat-out telling current employees that they need to let their employer know when their costs of living go down is pretty absurd. Do you want to know when I cancel Netflix too? Are you going to tell me when you figure out how to extract more profit from my labor?

Again, employers can do whatever they want, but this just seems like a chicken shite policy to me, and one that I think will backfire.

If a move impacts an employee's ability to provide the same value, that's one thing. But if you start asking me about my personal expenses to see if you can pay me less, then you're probably not going to be paying me anything at all anymore.


USMEagles
Southern Miss Fan
Member since Jan 2018
4365 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

Korkstand


I think your post is right on the money, and the cost-of-living thing is overblown anyway.

A lot of people have debt. That debt doesn't shrink if you move to Hattiesburg or grow if you move to Palo Alto.

Many consumer goods just cost what they cost. A Corvette costs pretty much the same amount in both Hattiesburg and Palo Alto. It's not all about the mortgage payment.

Retirement even falls into that same category. Sure, you might be living in Palo Alto and I might be living in Hattiesburg, but maybe we're both trying to pile up enough money to retire in Lake Havasu City.


Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
20407 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

And despite our political differences I agree completely with Kork’s positions in this thread.



I'm pretty level-headed when I'm not stirring shite.


I think this whole story is a non-issue, really. The market will work itself out, as it tends to do. This shift to WFH for a lot of jobs is going to level out salaries across the country, no doubt.

All I'm saying is it's piss-poor company policy to try to leverage an individual employee's personal choices, expenses, and living arrangements to pay them less than another employee who provides the same value to the business but who makes arguably worse life choices. Might as well issue a Wage Slave Handbook to your employees.
This post was edited on 9/16 at 11:26 pm


Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
20407 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
Also this thread reminds me of the guy who outsourced his own programming job to China. He was getting paid about $300k, and he paid some Chinese dude $50k to do all his work. He always got good quarterly reviews.

And they fired this genius!

US Software Developer Caught Outsourcing His Job to China

quote:

"a typical 'work day'" for the employee looked like the following:

9:00 a.m. – Arrive and surf Reddit for a couple of hours. Watch cat videos

11:30 a.m. – Take lunch

1:00 p.m. – EBay time.

2:00 – ish p.m. - Facebook updates – LinkedIn

4:30 p.m. – End of day update e-mail to management.

5:00 p.m. – Go home

quote:

The "best part" of the story is that "for the last several years in a row he received excellent remarks" in his performance review, Valentine wrote in the blog.

"His code was clean, well written, and submitted in a timely fashion. Quarter after quarter, his performance review noted him as the best developer in the building."


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82
armsdealer
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2016
1016 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
A lot of these "work from home" jobs are going to be "work from India" jobs. I hear it is already hitting new engineering highers at local companies.


lostinbr
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
3209 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

A lot of people have debt. That debt doesn't shrink if you move to Hattiesburg or grow if you move to Palo Alto.

Many consumer goods just cost what they cost. A Corvette costs pretty much the same amount in both Hattiesburg and Palo Alto. It's not all about the mortgage payment.

The median home cost in Palo Alto is $2.9 million. It’s $150k in Hattiesburg.

Using two different online cost of living calculators, a $175k salary in San Francisco metro would require a $74-83k salary in Hattiesburg to maintain the same standard of living. Neither of these calculators let me select Palo Alto, specifically, as an option. However, a third calculator that did let me select Palo Alto says that a $75k salary in Hattiesberg would require $517k in Palo Alto to maintain the same standard of living, primarily due to housing cost.

Let’s use the San Francisco metro numbers since they are more conservative and at least I could find a backup source. That means that if you make $175k, move from the Bay Area to Hattiesberg, maintain the same standard of living, and don’t take a pay cut, you have an additional $100k in disposable income.

That goes a long way toward paying down debt or retiring.
This post was edited on 9/16 at 11:45 pm


GRTiger
USA Fan
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
53881 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
It blows my damn mind that these companies, specifically the ones mentioned in this article, didn't recognize these opportunities before covid.

And there is nothing wrong with anything described in these articles. Are you confused why the average salary in SF is higher than that in Lafayette?

Covid is going to accidentally (or not) revolutionize many industries and organizations. It's the one thing I'm excited about out of all this bull shite.


Paul Allen
Notre Dame Fan
Montauk, NY
Member since Nov 2007
63855 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

revolutionize many industries and organizations.


How so?


GRTiger
USA Fan
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
53881 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
The realization that many already had an idea about, that their work can be all remote.

I have had more than a half dozen clients tell me they won't be renewing their lease and will be full remote from now on. And I work with myriad industries and service lines. Mine will never be as hardcore travel as we were. 60%+ of office work was solely habit. People are realizing this.


Paul Allen
Notre Dame Fan
Montauk, NY
Member since Nov 2007
63855 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

Mine will never be as hardcore travel as we were. 60%+ of office work was solely habit. People are realizing this.


Sure maybe for some, but sales and marketing roles are better when in person especially when trying to cultivate a relationship and sell something. Not easy to do on teams or zoom.


GRTiger
USA Fan
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
53881 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
I disagree. I guess we'll see. Revolution doesn't drag the slow-to-adapt to the finish line. The gas engine didn't concern it else with survival of the horse trader. This is a wake up call for the analog hangers on.


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12
Strannix
Atlanta Braves Fan
Hot as F
Member since Dec 2012
30755 posts
 Online 

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
Should ones value to the company change based on that? I mean I coukd live in a trailer house in Tacoma or antebellum mansion in Mississippi, stupid take


baldona
Auburn Fan
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
13169 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
You guys are assuming that WFH labor is going to demand the same salaries, I disagree. Usually flexibility is a benefit, and therefore many people will be able to request WFH for a lower salary. It doesn’t have to be substantial.

It’s not only cost of living, it’s the commute and being able to choose where you live.

The whole “top talent” is an ignorant argument. The amount of talent that is not replaceable especially in a WFH scenario is very small.


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10
SM6
Navy Fan
America
Member since Jul 2008
8231 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
This will happen for about three months then the normal IT recruitment cycle will kick in and developers will shop their services around the country, drive up salaries to insane levels and continue to work from po-dunk Mississippi.

This will go on until the company decides the employee can work from home in Mumbai at a fraction of the cost.


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02
Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
21862 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

People talk about Teams Meetings and how great they are. They are great for internal meetings, short ones. For in depth meetings, meetings with clients, nothing will ever replace or come close to face to face.


Agreed. When we bring on a new client, we always go onsite for at least a week on in person meetings. We sometimes schedule a follow up week a couple months later. After that, usually teams meetings are fine.

We also always have an onsite liaison that works for us but is "stationed" at the client. That person's sole job is to manage the client relationship, and keep a clear and open line of communication between the two parties.


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10
Clark W Griswold
LSU Fan
THE USA
Member since Sep 2012
8687 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
A guy who I work with (two years out of college) went to live in NY to be with his girlfriend since April once they told us to work from home. No ramifications.


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LanierSpots
Auburn Fan
Senior Sidewalk Fan
Member since Sep 2010
49833 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

I suppose that's only fair

Those salaries are based on the local market and COL.

A software developer needs a much higher salary to live comfortably in Seattle than Hattiesburg.



I may have been out of the corporate world to long. If you are paid to do a job and you do that job to satisfaction, why in the hell would it matter where you live as far as compensation. Seems like socialism to me.

"You do the job as good or better than employee X but you dont need as much to live so you get less" Sounds fricked up to me



Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
21862 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
quote:

A lot of these "work from home" jobs are going to be "work from India" jobs. I hear it is already hitting new engineering highers at local companies
A lot of these baws who think that you have to have an arse in a seat in order to perform a job spell the word "hires" as highers.

As I said before, I think the shift to WFH will ultimately level wages across the country, but something that hasn't been touched on is the fact that the employee has leverage too. No longer is the employee only looking in "desirable" areas for job opportunities. The employee can take a job working for a company in a part of the country that the employee would never consider moving to.


GFunk
LSU Fan
Denham Springs
Member since Feb 2011
14527 posts

re: The Dark Downside Of The Work-From-Home Trend
Read an interview with the CEO of Southwest from last month. He predicts early 2022 for their business to completely bounce back to 2019 levels. But they’re in a different position than other airlines.

He expects business travel to fundamentally change as an aspect of their business and for fares to begin to truly float down to Southwest levels across the rest of the majors. Not going away. But will take much longer for that rebound to occur. Though to me he’s not someone whose got a finger on the pulse of that segment of the airline travel market as SW doesn’t cater to a lot of biz travel compared to the other majors.

Very interesting interview.


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