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re: That one thing I simply cannot get past in all of this Coronavirus Mess
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:34 am to The Spleen
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:34 am to The Spleen
Trump didn’t handle this as well as he could’ve but you really think he’s the primary reason? The CDC has a wide list of mess ups in their labs over the last decade. Plenty of incompetency in a lot of these government agencies that extends before Trump even took office.
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 11:35 am
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:34 am to thedrumdoctor
quote:
This is what frustrates me the most as well. The United States had MONTHS for prepare for this. I'm not very happy with Uncle Trump either. Hes on record at the beginning of this mess saying they've got it contained. this is not a big deal. They'll have it eradicated in two weeks, etc... He took that stand for weeks. Then suddenly changed his tune. It became " This is a pandemic. I've been calling it a pandemic since before everyone called it a pandemic"
A lot of exaggeration and intellectual dishonesty in this post. But that’s cool, be irrationally emotional about all of this, that’ll fix the problems.
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 11:37 am
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:36 am to Mike da Tigah
How can you expect the Govt to anticipate every conceivable pandemic?
Especially when you have idiot citizens who don't understand or care to utilize social distancing...
Especially when you have idiot citizens who don't understand or care to utilize social distancing...
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:37 am to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Plenty of incompetency in a lot of these government agencies that extends before Trump even took office.
My previous post is a glaring example of this.
But for most people it's just easier to fall back to partisan politics.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:39 am to Mike da Tigah
A bureaucracy by definition is bloated and inefficient. It is the nature of ALL government. Any exceptions to this are just a matter of degree. Add to that basic human psychology, which is to assume the present is permanent. Human beings are NEVER prepared for disaster, it’s always a shock. That’s how we are wired .
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:40 am to ibldprplgld
quote:
How can you expect the Govt to anticipate every conceivable pandemic?
Because we’ve been talking about the inevitability of this for decades, and because not once did anyone think to actually buy basic shite to combat it.
This isn’t new or not planned for. We’ve had fire drills to prepare for this, and still nothing.
The return on the investment we’ve gotten out of our own government is laughable, and there’s simply no excuse for it.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:41 am to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Trump didn’t handle this as well as he could’ve but you really think he’s the primary reason?
No, this would have been a challenge for any president, and there would have been failings and shortcomings for any of them. But his style of "leadership" and the distrust he has in any our institutions have certainly exasperated it. Add to it his wholly dishonest statements the first couple of months of the growing crisis, and here we are.
But any Senators and/or Representatives that sold and bought stock after they were briefed on it, while remaining silent on the growing threat, would also fall under the ineffectual and dishonest leadership.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:42 am to Mike da Tigah
It all starts at the top. An Administration that didn't care to heed the warnings from China for 3 months.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:42 am to dbeck
quote:All those people who agreed to have fake funerals for themselves before being buried alive are really committed to this hoax.
Coronavirus is a hoax.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:42 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
The return on the investment we’ve gotten out of our own government is laughable, and there’s simply no excuse for it.
Yes there is. We, the people, voted them in to office. Or voted in to office the people that allow government bureaucracies to focus more on defending their little fiefdoms over doing the job they were created for.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:43 am to Mike da Tigah
I’ll be honest. You can whine, cry, and throw a fit about all you like, but regardless of next year, 5 years, 10, 20, 30 years from now. 8 “fire drills” later. Or whether it’s a (R) or (D) in charge.
.....that’s not going to change the fact we won’t ever be fully prepared for this type of situation. That’s a fact.
.....that’s not going to change the fact we won’t ever be fully prepared for this type of situation. That’s a fact.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:45 am to Mike da Tigah
I look at it like this: let’s say you live in a cozy little safe neighborhood that hasn’t had a crime in years. You’re looking at security cameras online thinking “I live in a safe neighborhood. I don’t need that”. Then bam, you’re robbed while you weren’t home. Now, you get cameras and an alarm system. You’ve been punched in the mouth but ready for the next blow. Human nature.
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 11:46 am
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:50 am to Mike da Tigah
I'm going to disagree a bit. No nation other than maybe South Korea has handled this in a way that I would describe in super positive terms, and with that, the US is only rivals SK's per capita infection rate. Even then, we are in the middle of this thing and we won't really be able to judge the effective response for a couple of years.
It is extremely difficult to coordinate a response that has to be global, when the epicenter of that response, China, initially downplayed the seriousness of the virus, and its relative novelty. Given that, a wait and see approach makes sense until experts could agree on what measures to take.
The lack of preparedness with regards to gear is worthy of criticism though. There is no reason to think that there shouldn't be a national reserve of PPE, given that epidemics are relatively common in human history, and will be a major threat due to the globalized nature of virtually everyone's economies.
It is extremely difficult to coordinate a response that has to be global, when the epicenter of that response, China, initially downplayed the seriousness of the virus, and its relative novelty. Given that, a wait and see approach makes sense until experts could agree on what measures to take.
The lack of preparedness with regards to gear is worthy of criticism though. There is no reason to think that there shouldn't be a national reserve of PPE, given that epidemics are relatively common in human history, and will be a major threat due to the globalized nature of virtually everyone's economies.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:51 am to The Spleen
quote:
No, this would have been a challenge for any president, and there would have been failings and shortcomings for any of them. But his style of "leadership" and the distrust he has in any our institutions have certainly exasperated it. Add to it his wholly dishonest statements the first couple of months of the growing crisis, and here we are.
If you’re saying “no” then why all bring only leadership up? I already agreed he didn’t initially handle it well. You acknowledge there are other issues at different areas right? So why not bring up the leadership issues AND those other issues. You have people that want Trump to get no blame but also those who want to only bring him.
The US is a massive country with numerous different agencies at the federal, state, and local levels. The level of incompetent bureaucracy is insane. There are thousands that work for these agencies and that have been Trump even took office. Plus places like hospitals who were also not fully prepared. Trump doesn’t control EVERY single aspect of this. Putting blame on a few people when asked what is to blame in a massive country is pretty crazy. Those people deserve blame plus plenty additional agencies and people not directly at the top.
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 11:55 am
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:51 am to Klark Kent
quote:
fully prepared for this type of situation
I'll just add that "fully prepared" doesn't necessarily mean having the needed supplies readily on hand. It can mean having the people and infrastructure in place to quickly access those needed supplies. It can mean having competent people in place to made quick decisions. It can mean empowering and trusting those people to make those decisions. It should be fairly clear we didn't have those things at the level we needed, and the reason should also be abundantly clear. Those years of braying about a deep state and bureaucratic inefficiency have come home to roost.
But we also have to blame the citizens. They didn't, and still aren't, heeding the warnings from health experts about social distancing.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:53 am to Klark Kent
quote:
I’ll be honest. You can whine, cry, and throw a fit about all you like, but regardless of next year, 5 years, 10, 20, 30 years from now. 8 “fire drills” later. Or whether it’s a (R) or (D) in charge.
.....that’s not going to change the fact we won’t ever be fully prepared for this type of situation. That’s a fact
I don’t lay this on any single politician, political party, or generation. I blame this on a system that has one job, and fails miserably at that one job they are entrusted with.
If there’s a lesson to be taken from this, it’s clearly yet another refresher course on why big government is the absolute biggest waste of money on the planet. We can stockpile a metric frick ton of ammo, missles, and unbelievably expensive high tech equipment to blow the world to shite ten times over, but just not enough forethought or preparation to protect your first responders from contamination in an emergency you knew damn well was coming sooner rather than later.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:56 am to Mike da Tigah
It’s not “right” so I’m not justifying it, but I will try to explain IMO.
What we are talking about with failure is N95 masks and proper droplet and airborne PPE equipment. This is all “perishable” expensive equipment. For a hospital to stockpile enough is a lot of $$$ sitting and not making money. N95 especially. You basically broke this stuff out for TB patients only. Or if somebody was just nasty as a proper fitting N95 can cloak some stench. Then Ebola. Had Ebola not happened our PPE problem would be even worse. Now everybody still has an Ebola cart. Those were raided clean early on with this.
Basically no hospitals or government agencies wanted to pay for and sit on a stockpile of these resources just to watch them expire, and get thrown out or sent to Liberia etc for their humanitarian aid. Hospitals must have an expiration date on EVERYTHING. Is that necessary? I honestly do not know. Is that just a product of regulation? These same pieces of equipment are destroyed or donated. When they get donated they are good enough to protect workers from the most horrific of illnesses.
My $0.02 on the OP question of why. You can blame every POTUS since LBJ probably.
What we are talking about with failure is N95 masks and proper droplet and airborne PPE equipment. This is all “perishable” expensive equipment. For a hospital to stockpile enough is a lot of $$$ sitting and not making money. N95 especially. You basically broke this stuff out for TB patients only. Or if somebody was just nasty as a proper fitting N95 can cloak some stench. Then Ebola. Had Ebola not happened our PPE problem would be even worse. Now everybody still has an Ebola cart. Those were raided clean early on with this.
Basically no hospitals or government agencies wanted to pay for and sit on a stockpile of these resources just to watch them expire, and get thrown out or sent to Liberia etc for their humanitarian aid. Hospitals must have an expiration date on EVERYTHING. Is that necessary? I honestly do not know. Is that just a product of regulation? These same pieces of equipment are destroyed or donated. When they get donated they are good enough to protect workers from the most horrific of illnesses.
My $0.02 on the OP question of why. You can blame every POTUS since LBJ probably.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:58 am to Mike da Tigah
The agencies have plans to address this. They drill this stuff. The intelligence community was warning about this back in January. It's up to the commander in chief to green light the response and set everything in motion, and he chose to wish it all away instead.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 11:59 am to Winston Cup
quote:
Non CNN link?
MSNBC
Posted on 3/25/20 at 12:00 pm to Mike da Tigah
Maybe because big government isn’t the answer but rather individual responsibility
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