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Message
re: That one thing I simply cannot get past in all of this Coronavirus Mess
Posted on 3/25/20 at 1:27 pm to klrstix
Posted on 3/25/20 at 1:27 pm to klrstix
quote:
I do not see this COVID 19 virus as an existential threat to our nation..
I'm not old enough to have lived through the 50s-60s nuclear threats.
However, whether it is due to the severity of the virus or the near complete shutdown that it has caused, this crisis absolutely dwarfs any "terrorism" or threat from an Iraq, North Korea ect in terms of its affect on the secure, domestic lives of American citizens.
I would add to anyone saying the virus isn't really that much of a threat:
If this were true, doesn't it make it an even more disastrous "mishandling" that we can't even determine that it's not much of threat?
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 7:53 pm
Posted on 3/25/20 at 1:30 pm to Mike da Tigah
We need more government agencies to make certain everyone is safe next time.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 1:41 pm to Centinel
quote:
You didn't answer my question. Should Trump listen to his scientific experts, or should he not?
Sure, but when he appoints them, he also has some responsibility there.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 1:45 pm to heatom2
quote:
Sure, but when he appoints them, he also has some responsibility there.
And I'm not saying he doesn't. But like my comment earlier, too many people are acting like this is all Trump's fault, yet at the same time blasting him for not listening to the experts enough.
There is plenty of reasons to be critical of Trump. The CDC's bureaucratic frickup isn't one of them.
It was the experts at the CDC that said there was no need to use the WHO test, then dropped the ball on their own test. Not Trump.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 1:49 pm to Mike da Tigah
Give a government worker a big pile of money he will squander it or steal it or both
Posted on 3/25/20 at 1:49 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
How this country, can have been this woefully ill prepared for this simply floors me.
There is a reality TV star leading the country. And people expect him to be able to handle complicated situations? lol. It's actually pretty simple.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 1:50 pm to Centinel
quote:
And I'm not saying he doesn't. But like my comment earlier, too many people are acting like this is all Trump's fault, yet at the same time blasting him for not listening to the experts enough.
There is plenty of reasons to be critical of Trump. The CDC's bureaucratic frickup isn't one of them.
It was the experts at the CDC that said there was no need to use the WHO test, then dropped the ball on their own test. Not Trump.
I don't disagree with anything you said here. But let's not pretend that Trump wasn't downplaying this 3 weeks ago.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 2:06 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
What we are talking about with failure is N95 masks and proper droplet and airborne PPE equipment.
It seems that respirators are an even larger failure but shortages of all those things has been absurd.
The main failure is how long it's taken to address these shortages -- like Ford + other companies announcing right now they will begin production on respirator machines that will take over 8 weeks begin to be delivered.
It's very valid criticism that these processes seemed to have almost been "started from scratch" rather than ready to go at least 2-3 weeks ago.
On N95 masks, in early January, a very wealthy client had, literally, a 1000 of these masks delivered for their complete house staff / workers and service entries etc. . .
As questionable as that is on many levels, it does beg the question as to why they had more forethought than we got from government leaders, top cat all the way down.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 2:09 pm to Mike da Tigah
It is surprising. Especially considering these same people ran a simulation 6 months ago about how they would handle a coronavirus pandemic.
Conclusion is that government is full of worthless paper pushers and philosophizers who don't know how to get shite done.
Thank God we have Trump in the White House to lead and crack the whip on these bumbling idiots. Could you imagine how many people would be dead if this happened under Obama or Bernie Sanders?
Conclusion is that government is full of worthless paper pushers and philosophizers who don't know how to get shite done.
Thank God we have Trump in the White House to lead and crack the whip on these bumbling idiots. Could you imagine how many people would be dead if this happened under Obama or Bernie Sanders?
Posted on 3/25/20 at 2:11 pm to Jinglebob
quote:
Thank God we have Trump in the White House to lead and crack the whip on these bumbling idiots. Could you imagine how many people would be dead if this happened under Obama or Bernie Sanders?
And here you go spouting the same crap as the TDS folks.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 2:17 pm to Mike da Tigah
Have you spent any time whatsoever to examine and form an educated opinion WRT to 1) What FedGov's job really is; 2) What FedGov ACTUALLY does instead of its job; 3) why FedGov employees overwhelmingly vote Democrat ?
Because if you have done so at any time during the past 15 years, you would not be at all surprised at FedGov's stunning inability to find its own arse with both hands.

Because if you have done so at any time during the past 15 years, you would not be at all surprised at FedGov's stunning inability to find its own arse with both hands.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 2:19 pm to heatom2
quote:
But let's not pretend that Trump wasn't downplaying this 3 weeks ago.
His words were aimed at NOT spreading panic.
His ACTIONS demonstrate that he quickly banned travel from China.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 2:23 pm to Mike da Tigah
“You know what bothered me about the Spanish Inquisition? All the questions...”
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 3/25/20 at 2:30 pm to Champagne
quote:
His ACTIONS demonstrate that he quickly banned travel from China.
If only that was all it took.
The ban only applied to Chinese nationalists, and it came a week after the first US death from the virus. The virus was already here and spreading.
So, what other actions was he taking at the time, other than lying to the American public on the potential severity of the situation?
Posted on 3/25/20 at 2:30 pm to Mike da Tigah
I was surprised that after SARS (2002) and MERS 10 yeas later (2012 we just sat on developing and testing vaccines for corona viruses (Not just us but world as well). I think one SARS developed but not truly tested was supposed to be 80% similar to Wuhan strain. If one tested and ready it might have been easier & quicker to make one specific for this one. 18 years passed since SARS first got out & 8 years since MERS started, and that's a lot of time to work on issues with human reactions to vaccines for coronaviruses
We knew more would be coming, but i guess we figured we would have a couple of smaller outbreaks to motivate more development before we got one like this. We also should have known China would not be forthcoming with info until situation could no longer be denied including not sending us actual samples of strains going around there (they may have in Feb not sure but hadn't by end of Jan). Even then assume it started earlier. Just don't think they should have continued the go it alone approach when info was restricted (I like doing our own but didn't have to not use others while making ours).
CDC had gotten a little arrogant even after getting lucky with Ebola 2014 in Dallas including approving the nurse's travel with flights (first criticized nurse before admitting they ok'd it). By the time China became a big story it was here already and in other places we weren't restricted travel with right away, and they weren't ready to continue their practice of making their own kits from something that wasn't sneaking in through certain points but here already with more to come from all directions and countries. After confirming first 16,000 to 20,000 tests sent to them it shouldn't have taken the FDA to put a stop to them still requiring this after doing so with so many tests. If no issues popping after a couple of weeks of states & commercial labs ramping up testing they should have made this decision on their own. They seem to be a little salty over it by specifically pointing out when it was stopped on case site. On the 12th they had already shifted their daily test racker to tracking tests by date they received the tests instead of when specimen taken from patient like they had been doing to make sure delays on confirmations & reporting of tests weren't pushed on them (I think this but don't know).
If still would had been big but maybe known earlier including around Mardi Gra or at least soon after it.
We knew more would be coming, but i guess we figured we would have a couple of smaller outbreaks to motivate more development before we got one like this. We also should have known China would not be forthcoming with info until situation could no longer be denied including not sending us actual samples of strains going around there (they may have in Feb not sure but hadn't by end of Jan). Even then assume it started earlier. Just don't think they should have continued the go it alone approach when info was restricted (I like doing our own but didn't have to not use others while making ours).
CDC had gotten a little arrogant even after getting lucky with Ebola 2014 in Dallas including approving the nurse's travel with flights (first criticized nurse before admitting they ok'd it). By the time China became a big story it was here already and in other places we weren't restricted travel with right away, and they weren't ready to continue their practice of making their own kits from something that wasn't sneaking in through certain points but here already with more to come from all directions and countries. After confirming first 16,000 to 20,000 tests sent to them it shouldn't have taken the FDA to put a stop to them still requiring this after doing so with so many tests. If no issues popping after a couple of weeks of states & commercial labs ramping up testing they should have made this decision on their own. They seem to be a little salty over it by specifically pointing out when it was stopped on case site. On the 12th they had already shifted their daily test racker to tracking tests by date they received the tests instead of when specimen taken from patient like they had been doing to make sure delays on confirmations & reporting of tests weren't pushed on them (I think this but don't know).
If still would had been big but maybe known earlier including around Mardi Gra or at least soon after it.
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 3/25/20 at 3:01 pm to wm72
quote:
main failure is how long it's taken to address these shortages -- like Ford + other companies announcing right now they will begin production on respirator machines that will take over 8 weeks begin to be delivered.
Ford will have to be taught how to manufacture these vents. Machines to fabricate them. Henry Ford is long dead. Maybe that old fart was smart enough to throw something from scratch again.
I’ve made the point before. Emergency pandemic vents should be bare bones. What the military and some EMS use. Small, portable, simple. Every pic I see is of an ICU vent with all the bells and whistles. Why? Seems to me a vent that works in sand and is operated by kids and young men with field medic training (don’t know how long that is) while being shot at would be perfect for the scorched earth scenario people fear. Like Italy.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 3:30 pm to thedrumdoctor
Not using the WHO test was the absolute disaster, and allowed for a fingers in their ears "La la la la la" response from many Americans, amplified by Trump's initial downplaying of the threat WITHIN the US.
Democrats were seeking to deny the threat TO the US since they were afraid to sound racist, and besides, a huge chunk of that group actually DOES hate the US.
This combined to make a cauldron of clusterfrick, and we've all been sent to our rooms to think about what we've done.
Democrats were seeking to deny the threat TO the US since they were afraid to sound racist, and besides, a huge chunk of that group actually DOES hate the US.
This combined to make a cauldron of clusterfrick, and we've all been sent to our rooms to think about what we've done.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 4:07 pm to Mike da Tigah
The answer is easy and twofold.
1. The general population is incredibly stupid.
2. Related to #1, people don't react and prepare for possibilities they can't see immediately. They don't save for retirement, they don't wash their hands, they don't wear seat belts, etc. They also don't drop a lot of money to ensure safety against dangers that aren't immediately apparent - e.g. the levees and pumps pre-Katrina.
1. The general population is incredibly stupid.
2. Related to #1, people don't react and prepare for possibilities they can't see immediately. They don't save for retirement, they don't wash their hands, they don't wear seat belts, etc. They also don't drop a lot of money to ensure safety against dangers that aren't immediately apparent - e.g. the levees and pumps pre-Katrina.
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 3/25/20 at 4:11 pm to Mike da Tigah
The world had been at war for two years and tensions with Japan had been ratcheting up for months, but we still managed to get caught flatfooted by Pearl Harbor. Being unprepared is what we do best.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 4:37 pm to The Spleen
quote:
So, what other actions was he taking at the time, other than lying to the American public on the potential severity of the situation?
Trump was behind the scenes mobilizing his virus-fighting task force while at the same time carefully projecting a message of quiet confidence that We are a great nation and we will win this fight.
NOW, you go ahead and refute my post.
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