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re: NOLA Pumps to get new power source

Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:04 am to
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
37584 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:04 am to
quote:

Destroya gets a lot of hate on this site (often earned)


All of it is earned.
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:04 am to
quote:

So the city's drainage system will be solely at the mercy of the power grid that goes out in most


Unless something has changed in recent history many of the pumps don’t operate off the grid which is the root of the problem. The motors driving the pumps were designed in the 1920s and require 25HZ power, standard power on the grid is 60HZ. This has been handled by having a dedicated gas turbine generating station producing 25HZ power specifically for the pumps. I think the current power plant is a GE gas turbine installed in the 1990s. Entergy will have to do the same or provide some type of frequency converter to power the motets from the grid. I admit this is all stuff I read several years ago, and my not be accurate today.
Posted by LSUtoBOOT
Member since Aug 2012
12519 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:08 am to
quote:

Why anyone with any sense still lives in Orleans Parish perplexes me.


Old money and hipsters, and the holdouts from days gone by who are shrinking.
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
146214 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:08 am to
quote:

Pieces of the whole story of the S&WB's boil water advisory and continuing water pressure problems are starting to trickle out, though there are still serious gaps in the narrative and real questions as to the agency's understanding of its own risks to the city. Tweets from the agency and articles by the Times-Picayune/Advocate and WWL-TV indicate that one of the two water towers (each has 20 minutes of capacity to maintain pressure) was empty at the time of the Entergy power outage. Responses to me on Twitter indicate the earliest reports of low water pressure being pegged to 4 PM. If so, that would mean the Entergy outage would likely have come 20 minutes earlier, at 3:40 PM. Of course, there's some slop in that number. The water tower was empty because it was connected to a pipe on the plant that was being repaired. The SWB actually admitted they expected and measured a citywide pressure drop from the repair. Obviously, they didn't tell anyone about it beforehand. They also said that when the Entergy outage hit, the 20 minute window provided by the single remaining tower was not enough time to get water pressure back up above 20 psi at the location where it dipped below that state requirement: drainage pumping station 1 in Broadmoor. Note that 20 minutes is not "immediately" as SWB tweeted. Given just the small amount of information they deigned to release so far, it is astounding they decided to take such risks without informing the public. They knew that Entergy was messing with electrical lines near their plant, lines which power their water pumps. They also knew they were operating at lower than normal water pressure AND they had only half of their emergency pressure capacity in service. Yet they decided not to run their own $31 million, 100% federally funded turbine generator 6 which provides the same type of power as Entergy. Doing so would have insulated them from any Entergy mishaps, which were inevitable given the chaotic nature of repairs after a tornado. In fact, it's not clear if they even ran T6 before the storm hit at 2 AM, or if they just assumed Entergy power would be just fine as a major storm blew into town with hours of warning from the National Weather Service. Put simply, they never should have been on Entergy power when it went out. As for notifying the public, reports indicate that water pressure was near zero for hours prior to the boil water advisory being called at 8 PM, and despite promises after every one of these, S&WB still showed they can't alert their own customers to health risks in a timely manner. Why they cannot do so is another question still floating out there. And as to the continuing pressure loss, they claim they didn't expect it, and that something must have gone wrong with valve opening process following the repairs. We've heard this before after many water main break repairs, so it's not a surprise. They claim they're on top of it, but again, despite having second-to-second data about water pressure, it wasn't until the media and customers started asking them what was going on that they decided to talk about it. S&WB and Entergy will be in front of the City Council next Tuesday to point fingers at each other.
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
17493 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:09 am to
quote:

Why anyone with any sense still lives in Orleans Parish perplexes me.

You've got the answer in your post.
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
146214 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:10 am to
quote:

We learned today from a state-mandated SWB report about the May 9-12 rainfall - found only on the City Council website - that turbine generator 4 ("T4") has been back in service since May 11th. It adds 18 megawatts of 25 cycle power that were not available for eight months. This is a huge boon for drainage. However, we also learned that the unit tripped within hours of coming online and was down for over two hours in the early hours of May 12th, the same day as the tornado and the later boil water advisory. We don't know how T4 played into the events leading to the boil water advisory on the evening of the 12th, but it would seem from the report that the turbine was available and running. This makes for a second source of power - SWB's own 60 cycle turbine generator 6 being the other - which could have substituted for Entergy power while Entergy repairs were occurring and one of the water towers was out of service, an inherently risky scenario that SWB seems to have done little to mitigate before it caught up with them. That potential source of embarrassment might be why SWB has been quiet about T4 except for in this legally required report. As for the incoming storm, SWB's track record on restarting equipment after a long outage is poor, so be cautious, hope the best, and plan for the worst. The link to the report can be found in the comments.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37162 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:10 am to
quote:

No I understand how the towers work, I meant how did they fail? Did they not maintain pressure for their designated time? Did they Mkt maintain pressure at all?


My understanding was that the time the power was out, exceeded the ability of the towers to provide pressure.

In other words... the towers can provide 20 min, but the power was out 25 min, for example.

Edit: Looks like only one tower was operational, not two, and the time ran out on that one. Second tower was empty due to water pipe issues.
This post was edited on 6/16/21 at 11:16 am
Posted by Tbonepatron
Member since Aug 2013
8447 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:36 am to
Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
54897 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:40 am to
I figured this was going to say they were switching to solar power. Going to a source of power that relies on the sun for something that is only needed during storms and heavy rain sounds like something those folks would do.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134887 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 11:59 am to
Wait, don't all the pumps run on a different frequency than the standard grid?
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
65920 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:05 pm to
Pronounced “Berl waddah adfyesoareeh”

Posted by real turf fan
East Tennessee
Member since Dec 2016
8716 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:07 pm to
You don't need to hear my misery stories of both those entities.
But I feel so damned sorry for folks still there who are trapped by their families or even (in the case of some of my friends) their inertia tied to their ages and the mental damage done to them by riding out Katrina.
Nobody should have to live in such fragile situations in a first or second world country.

Nobody.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37162 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

Wait, don't all the pumps run on a different frequency than the standard grid?


Not all of them, but some do, including some of theses. So part of the project is a converter to bring the grid power to the level needed for the pumps.

In other words... one more thing to fail.
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
146214 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:14 pm to
They are building it’s very own substation.
Posted by TheHarahanian
Actually not Harahan as of 6/2023
Member since May 2017
19569 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:15 pm to

If they found a way to use the power of stolen cars they’d be way overpowered.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134887 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

Not all of them, but some do, including some of theses. So part of the project is a converter to bring the grid power to the level needed for the pumps.

In other words... one more thing to fail.

Seems like they could've invested in new generators and just continue to be self sufficient
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
39682 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

So when Entergy Intentionally shuts off the power or loses power during a storm city will flood and more boil water advisories??

Funny, but Entergy supplies all kinds of plants and is extremely reliable. Not everyone gets the same reliability from a utility.
Posted by winkchance
St. George, LA
Member since Jul 2016
4128 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:25 pm to
Solar for Nola Pumps!
Posted by MrLSU
Yellowstone, Val d'isere
Member since Jan 2004
26039 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:27 pm to
"No city in the world is better prepared for a Hurricane than the City of New Orleans" LaToya Cantrell in July of 2020.
Posted by MorbidTheClown
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2015
66395 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 12:28 pm to
they should just hire a bunch of the homeless fricks to pedal manual generators.
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