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re: NOLA Pumps to get new power source

Posted on 6/16/21 at 1:05 pm to
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

Not all of them, but some do, including some of theses. So part of the project is a converter to bring the grid power to the level needed for the pumps. In other words... one more thing to fail.


The pump motors that require 25HZ power have been in service since the 1920s. I can’t understand why at some point in the last 75 years these motors were not replaced with modern motors eliminating this non-standard power requirement. There have been nothing but “band aids” applied to the problem over the years instead of addressing the root problem. Now Entergy is tasked with building yet another better, bigger “band aid” with their frequency converter project.
Posted by Capt ST
Hotel California
Member since Aug 2011
12880 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 1:51 pm to
quote:

The pump motors that require 25HZ power have been in service since the 1920s. I can’t understand why at some point in the last 75 years these motors were not replaced with modern motors eliminating this non-standard power requirement.


This is what baffles me the most in all of this. It doesn't take that long to swap this equipment out and can be done in the winter with limited risks.
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
37584 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 1:53 pm to
quote:

he pump motors that require 25HZ power have been in service since the 1920s. I can’t understand why at some point in the last 75 years these motors were not replaced with modern motors eliminating this non-standard power requirement. There have been nothing but “band aids” applied to the problem over the years instead of addressing the root problem. Now Entergy is tasked with building yet another better, bigger “band aid” with their frequency converter project.


Grift, greed, and jobs. That’s why. Seriously, look at the pump projects after Katrina
Posted by TSmith
New Orleans, La.
Member since Jan 2004
1656 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 2:53 pm to
I decided to collect the only useful posts in this thread, and place them below:

quote:

The S&WB old turbines will no longer be the primary source of power for the pumps.


quote:

While Entergy sucks, they don't suck as much as the old-arse power system that SWB uses. It's at least a step in the forward direction.


quote:

I think this is a pretty positive development for the city.


quote:

They are building it’s very own substation.


quote:

Entergy supplies all kinds of plants and is extremely reliable. Not everyone gets the same reliability from a utility.


Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
119031 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 3:05 pm to
My first job out of engineering school was working for a consulting firm that had NOLA S&WB projects. I was doing mechanical design on the pump stations for the Carrollton Water Treatment plant. I know a lot of those old pumps work on 25 Hz power and the power was produced by the NOLA S&WB power plant at Carrollton. The electrical motors that work off 25 Hz power are VERY old but VERY reliable and still work very well today.

Everyone else in America uses 60 Hz power.

So it looks like they are closing up the Carrollton power plant and hiring Entergy to provide power to those old 25 Hz pump motors. But first Entergy has to install a frequency converter from 60 Hz to 25 Hz to run those old motors.

quote:

This plan would switch over the rest by building a new substation at the Carrollton Plant and installing frequency changers that would convert Entergy's power to the archaic standard used by about half of the S&WB's equipment.


This post was edited on 6/16/21 at 3:12 pm
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
119031 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

The pump motors that require 25HZ power have been in service since the 1920s.


One of the pumps that feeds the Carrollton water treatment plant with Mississippi River water has been running since 1905 IIRC.

This one:

This post was edited on 6/16/21 at 3:28 pm
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
119031 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

I can’t understand why at some point in the last 75 years these motors were not replaced with modern motors eliminating this non-standard power requirement.


Expense. And those 25 Hz motors are tanks. Extremely reliable.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
39692 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

This is what baffles me the most in all of this. It doesn't take that long to swap this equipment out

Not true. This is extremely expensive custom made stuff. The frequency converters are probably cheaper, but increases the complexity and chance of failure.
Posted by Fat Harry
70115
Member since Mar 2005
2220 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 3:50 pm to
One of those old turbines had a pilot light that could only be lit using a long broom straw.
Posted by Louie T
htx
Member since Dec 2006
36321 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 3:58 pm to
quote:

Funny, but Entergy supplies all kinds of plants and is extremely reliable. Not everyone gets the same reliability from a utility.

Entergy's biggest problem is its demographics. The regulators don't let them spend appropriate amounts to harden the grid bc their service territories are occupied by some of the poorest ppl in the US of A. Pretty much no issues in Montgomery County TX for some reason...
Posted by dgnx6
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
68941 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 4:22 pm to
Only took 100 years and billions of fema funds that disappeared.


Posted by dgnx6
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
68941 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

One of the pumps that feeds the Carrollton water treatment plant with Mississippi River water has been running since 1905 IIRC.



I run by that one all the time on my long weekend runs.
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 9:01 pm to
quote:

Expense. And those 25 Hz motors are tanks. Extremely reliable.


If they cannot reliably produce the 25HZ power to run them the reliability of the motors is kind of a moot point.
Posted by Hurricane Mike
Member since Jun 2008
20059 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 9:16 pm to
quote:

aging and ailing turbines that power the city’s drainage system, city and utility officials announced Wednesday.


Remember all that free money from Katrina?

Apparently it didn't buy power for flood pumps
Posted by Capt ST
Hotel California
Member since Aug 2011
12880 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 10:04 pm to
And most if not all of the spares have to be custom made at this point. I’m not implying the turbine can be bought off the shelf and plug and play. That’s not how it works. But these machines have been a risk for a while. Their replacements should have been engineered, bought and in storage with no bid contract to Boh brothers to install given the opportunity.
Posted by supadave3
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2005
30298 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 10:07 pm to
quote:

To be fair though this only currently happens 9/10 times it rains or the wind is slightly higher than normal


Or when Beyoncé takes the stage.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
9642 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 10:09 pm to
Should have happened in late 2005
Posted by BottomlandBrew
Member since Aug 2010
27158 posts
Posted on 6/16/21 at 10:10 pm to
quote:

Remember all that free money from Katrina?
Apparently it didn't buy power for flood pumps



I love to criticize S&WB, and they no doubt misused Katrina funds, but the pump power issue and Katrina flooding are two totally separate things, and as such, little to no money would have been given to S&WB for pump power upgrades.

You have to understand the major cause of the flood was the failure of the levees and floodwalls. Most of the pumps were working up until the levees failed. A lot of the Katrina rebuilding money went to shore up the levees, build walls and pumps at all the major outfall canals, and the Lake Borgne Surge Barrier.

Sorry. Just had to correct the record.

Now, with that said, S&WB has received significant federal funds not related to Katrina. Those funds were intended for upgrades. I'd wager a lot of that money has been completely wasted.
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