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Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:07 am to upgrayedd
quote:
I bet you thought Obama attempting to topple every middle east and north African government at the same time was another example of how we're the good guys too
1. This is a whataboutism
2. That sort of thing has been going on literally as long as we’ve had the power projection capabilities to do so.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:07 am to theGarnetWay
quote:
Okay, then. Let's discuss.
Why do you think Russia is doing this? And what is your opinion of it? What do you think the consequences are?
Also, please don't come in with the "CIA doing work," crap.
He's establishing a buffer between himself and NATO after heavy eastward expansion over the course of 2 decades. This isn't a difficult topic, but people like DS call you a fanboy for simply pointing out motives and saying it's a rational line of thinking.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:07 am to Slippy
quote:
Putin is an autocrat who rules his country with an iron fist. He is corrupt. He controls information through state media and suppresses free speech. He has invaded a neighboring country that voted for independence over 30 years ago (with over 90% of the vote) and has a democratically elected government.
This is bad. It’s bad for democracy. It’s bad for economies worldwide. It’s bad for freedom. It’s bad for civilization. There is no good way to spin this, no matter what the Putin fanboys will tell you.
Anyway, back to Kelly & Ryan. They’re discussing 10 minute dinner recipes.
My favorite part about obviously political posts like this is...when you want someone to agree with a post like this one, you drop it here rather than on the PoliBoard where you'll actually get push back.
Fine work, old friend...
Bad for democracy...
We talking about Ukraine here?
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:08 am to Slippy
So you're saying it was a bad time for the US to halt our energy independence over potential environmental problems based on "the consensus expert opinion," to show our lack of resolve to see a competent departure in Afghanistan based on "the consensus expert opinion," and to prolong the destruction of our economy over something with a 99% survival rate for working age people which has an optional vaccine for increased survival rate and decreased severity based on "the consensus expert opinion?"
I guess the current experts and leadership in our country couldn't have possibly predicted this, but we should continue to support their decisions that have increased gas prices, accelerated inflation, promoted a violent conflict with potential US involvement, and has caused economic destruction and upheaval that will effect our country for decades? Not to mention the psychological effect of our children and people with mental health lives being masked and restricted for almost 2 years over a virus that everyone will catch?!?!
Just give the restrictions on Putin 2 weeks to slow the spread of his invasion!!! Let's see how that works out!!!
I guess the current experts and leadership in our country couldn't have possibly predicted this, but we should continue to support their decisions that have increased gas prices, accelerated inflation, promoted a violent conflict with potential US involvement, and has caused economic destruction and upheaval that will effect our country for decades? Not to mention the psychological effect of our children and people with mental health lives being masked and restricted for almost 2 years over a virus that everyone will catch?!?!
Just give the restrictions on Putin 2 weeks to slow the spread of his invasion!!! Let's see how that works out!!!
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:09 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
The bigger issue is when (not if) Putin takes Narrative Part II into a neighboring NATO country.
Then its game on.
If he were to do that, then yes all hell breaks loose.
But I doubt he would. At that point he looses the narrative that he is just protecting his borders by keeping NATO at bay. In that scenario he has moved his own borders closer to NATO countries and is attacking them. We would be required to make a real response and the president would have the support of more people than if he were to fight with the Ukrainians now.
He would also have to do all of this before our next elections since it seems unlikely Biden will survive re-election assuming things keep going the way they are. That would be a quick timeline which would make Putin look worse.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:09 am to The Spleen
quote:
When the former president is quoted heaping praise on Putin for invading a sovereign country unprovoked, the criticism seems merited.
You don’t know why he said what he said. All we have are the facts and Putin had 4 years of trump to make his move. If trump was so friendly to him why didn’t he do it then?
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:09 am to upgrayedd
quote:
He's establishing a buffer between himself and NATO after heavy eastward expansion over the course of 2 decades. This isn't a difficult topic, but people like DS call you a fanboy for simply pointing out motives and saying it's a rational line of thinking.
Right. The west has gotten too comfortable and thinks nuclear war isn't an option. Putin to some degree is saying, you lied to me so I'm taking the buffer state back. What are you going to do about it. Western leaders aren't very much better than Putin.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:10 am to The Spleen
quote:
When the former president is quoted heaping praise on Putin for invading a sovereign country unprovoked, the criticism seems merited.
Again, you fricking emotional mental midgets can't see what he actually said but rather what you wanted him to say. He said Putin was smart and savvy about annexing the 2 regions through legal means. That's not an endorsement. Jesus Christ.
Go grab some dunkaroos and watch Spongebob on your iPad with the rest of the children.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:10 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
This is about the bizarre rhetoric coming from certain corners of our national discourse.
Politics has completely rotted the American peoples brains. It’s like there can only ever be two sides of any issue and any nuance shows that you might be aligned with the other team, and if you are part of the other team then you are destroying America.
We saw it with COVID when you questioned if the executive branch should be able to rule via fiat and were told you were killing grandma if you dissented; and we see it now when not endorsing Putin’s actions is equivalent to wanting US boots on the ground, in certain circles. No middle ground allowed.
It’s the type of reductionist thinking that gets us some grade A buffoons taking power and keeping it because they just need some simple slogans to rile up a base against the “other team” to compete in an election and it should be called out.
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 8:13 am
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:10 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I bet you thought Obama attempting to topple every middle east and north African government at the same time was another example of how we're the good guys too
1. This is a whataboutism
No, it isn't.
Our involvement in the 2014 Orange Coup is directly related to the current military action.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:12 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
trump was so friendly to him why didn’t he do it then?
Because Trump wasn’t actually friendly to Putin. Having a meeting and not wanting war doesn’t mean they were friendly. Again, Putin did this under Obama and now Biden, why didn’t he do this under Trump?
I’m not meaning that comment at you WaWa
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:12 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
and by that time (a time which will never happen under your metrics) Russia/China may have a firm foot hold on that part of the globe......one that can never be undone.
Unless America right now fights both of them by ourselves they’ll win? bullshite l.
How about the plethora of first world countries that almost share borders with them fight them tooth and nail until we are prepared to help?
We didn’t win WWII because we proactively jumped into war full scale. We came in to help after we were prepared and ready and pushed into it. We aren’t prepared and we are a far far way removed from what we were in the 1930/early 40s.
Walk softly and carry a big stick has been perverted into bark loudly and carry a foam baton.
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 8:17 am
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:12 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
You could say the exact same thing about the democrats in this country. Are we really that much better?
The fact that we have news organizations and journalist that are shills to democrats (and some for republicans as well)is not the same as the situation in Russia. We have not had one man that has essentially ruled our country for 20 years. We have not had critics or political opponents of our presidents killed or live in fear of their lives. Do we have serious issues..yes. Are we better yes. Its bizarre to me that so many people seem to be excusing Putin's actions or deflecting this and turning it into a indictment of Biden.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:13 am to upgrayedd
quote:
He's establishing a buffer between himself and NATO
Absolutely bullshite. There’s zero chance of Ukraine joining NATO and he knows that. This is about him not wanting a relatively large country next to him strengthening economic ties with the EU while Russia languishes. He thinks that will eventually lead the Russia people will wake up and kick the maffia out of power in Moscow.
Why did he need a buffer considering NATO troop levels were minuscule until he invaded Georgia in 2008? The buildup is in direct response to his agression in the area.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:15 am to Slippy
Is there any difference between Russia and China?
IMO what you described is both of them, but the US will only talk about 1.
IMO what you described is both of them, but the US will only talk about 1.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:15 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
1. This is a whataboutism
2. That sort of thing has been going on literally as long as we’ve had the power projection capabilities to do so.
It's not whataboutism. It happened and the likelihood of you supporting that action is extremely high.
And thanks for acknowledging that we've been doing this for at least a century despite the fact that you're saying we're always the good guy. As usual, you've got absolutely no consistency with your emotional arguments.
I also find it comical that you completely ignored my pointing out that the most hawkish member of the United States Congress was at a rally to overthrow the elected government of Ukraine a few months before the entire place fell into chaos. But, then again, we're the good guys so if we have to get thousands of people killed in the process of showing how holy we are, then so be it.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:15 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:
We have not had one man that has essentially ruled our country for 20 years
We’ve been in a uniparty state of lobbyist run politics since atleast 2001.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:16 am to shawnlsu
quote:
The US is as corrupt, if not more so than Russia and China combined.
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