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re: No, we should not send our military to Ukraine. But can we speak the truth?
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:16 am to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:16 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
How close has Ukraine come to joining the alliance?
At the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest, the alliance welcomed Ukraine and Georgia’s aspirations for membership in the alliance and agreed that "these countries will become members of NATO".
But the countries were not offered membership action plans, with NATO countries stating they would engage "to address the questions still outstanding" on the applications.
"There's been no movement towards even that in the intervening nearly 14 years," Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation said of the action plans.
Ukraine's Moscow-friendly president at the time, Viktor Yanukovych, said there was no need for the country to join NATO, with parliament voting in 2010 for the country to have a non-aligned status.
Following Yanukovych's ousting and Putin's annexation of Crimea, Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said the country's view on NATO membership had changed.
The Ukrainian Parliament adopted legislation in 2017 reinstating NATO membership as the country's objective, with amendments later made to the Constitution.
Ukraine became an enhanced opportunity partner of NATO in 2020, which allowed for more information sharing and access to exercises with the organisation.
"Finland also has that status, and it's probably the most capable and significant non-member partner of the alliance," Charap said.
Current President Volodymyr Zelenskyy reiterated this month that Ukraine's intention to become a member is "enshrined in the constitution (and) it remains unchanged".
EuroNews
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 8:17 am
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:16 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
Our involvement in the 2014 Orange Coup is directly related to the current military action.
Yeah just because there was a coup that led to a regime Putin doesn’t like, that doesn’t make the US “responsible” for him invading the place
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 8:17 am
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:16 am to Draconian Sanctions
Here’s the question you should be asking
Why have we been getting in bed with these terrible countries (Russia and China) for 30+ years?
You think Putin and the CCP just became bad dudes yesterday? So why is Germany buying all their gas from Russia? Why have we become completely dependent on Chinese manufacturing? Why did Hillary sell half our uranium to Russia?
It’s because our government is corrupt as frick
See the reality is we have funded and enabled this entire scenario. Putin doesn’t give a frick about our sanctions, he has Chinese manufacturing.
Why have we been getting in bed with these terrible countries (Russia and China) for 30+ years?
You think Putin and the CCP just became bad dudes yesterday? So why is Germany buying all their gas from Russia? Why have we become completely dependent on Chinese manufacturing? Why did Hillary sell half our uranium to Russia?
It’s because our government is corrupt as frick
See the reality is we have funded and enabled this entire scenario. Putin doesn’t give a frick about our sanctions, he has Chinese manufacturing.
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 8:18 am
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:17 am to Draconian Sanctions
What would you have the U.S. do?
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:17 am to upgrayedd
quote:
He's establishing a buffer between himself and NATO after heavy eastward expansion over the course of 2 decades.
Finland will be the next NATO member. Will he fight them as well?
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:17 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
You could say the exact same thing about the democrats in this country. Are we really that much better?
Very comparable situation. What a retard
quote:
WaWaWeeWa
Oh that explains it
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:18 am to upgrayedd
quote:
And thanks for acknowledging that we've been doing this for at least a century despite the fact that you're saying we're always the good guy.
where have I said we’re always the good guy. Show me a link.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:18 am to Slippy
"President" Putin has been in power for 18 years.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:18 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Absolutely bullshite. There’s zero chance of Ukraine joining NATO and he knows that. This is about him not wanting a relatively large country next to him strengthening economic ties with the EU while Russia languishes. He thinks that will eventually lead the Russia people will wake up and kick the maffia out of power in Moscow.
Why did he need a buffer considering NATO troop levels were minuscule until he invaded Georgia in 2008? The buildup is in direct response to his agression in the area.
Joining the EU is 1000% a pretext to joining NATO.
If he was so concerned with regional domination, why didn't he take all of Georgia and not just S Ossetia? It's almost as if he's just trying to create, oh I don't know, a buffer zone.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:18 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:
Its bizarre to me that so many people seem to be excusing Putin's actions or deflecting this and turning it into a indictment of Biden.
It's not defending Putin. It's recognizing that our foreign policy in the Ukraine and Syria under the Obama Administration is the direct catalyst for this Russian military action - and not only was it dreadful policy but it was corrupt to the core as the Clintons, Bidens, and Kerrys all made millions in the process.
Americans, especially the American left, are so politically ignorant of the goings-on outside of our borders that the only way they can conceptualize foreign policy is in black and white, us versus them.
You can easily hold the opinion that Putin is an autocrat with malicious motives while also recognizing that our corrupt politicians are the genesis of this conflict.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:19 am to Nguyener
quote:
Yup. So is the American government since 2001. Why don’t we fix our own country before we send people to the other side of the globe.
Putin is a bad person. He’s a power hungry authoritarian socialist and his waging war shouldn’t be supported or cheered on. It’s dangerous and it’s setting up a global conflict. Those countries in Europe can fight him for a while and beat him back.
Here at home, Our government is wildly corrupt and out of control. Our society is divided and full of hatred. Our economy is circling the toilet and our workforce is apathetic and disengaged. Our border security is abhorrent. Our media and news agencies are nothing more than state propaganda. Let’s get a handle on the things destroying our country before we worry about other countries.
America doesn’t currently have the backbone or resources to defend the globe. We can’t even defend ourselves. We need to strategically plan how best to defend our country and how to best fight these powers. We can’t just jump into a hot war and spread out already paper thin resources into nothingness.
Why don’t we all come together and get our country under control before we divide ourselves fighting about how to handle other countries.
Maybe if we spend the next few years rebuilding this country’s independence in manufacturing and energy and production then maybe we will be prepared to fight a global threat. Maybe. At that point maybe if other countries have been fighting to keep Russia and China at bay maybe we can step in and help beat them all the way back.
We need to rebuild local and state powers. We need to reinvest in actual American jobs and growth sectors. We need to reign in the federal government. We need to end the wild spending and unnecessary outsourcing and allegiance to foreign countries.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:19 am to Sao
quote:
Finland will be the next NATO member. Will he fight them as well?
"You better not join an alliance to protect you from us bombing you, or we'll bomb you"
-Putin, probably
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:19 am to NIH
quote:
What would you have the U.S. do?
Basically what we’re doing now, but let’s at least be real about what’s going on there and not parrot Putin’s talking points because Tucker Carlson does.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:19 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
where have I said we’re always the good guy. Show me a link.
quote:
Are we really that much better?
Why yes, yes we are.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:21 am to DabosDynasty
Economy isn’t circling the toilet.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:21 am to upgrayedd
quote:
It's almost as if he's just trying to create, oh I don't know, a buffer zone.
Why does Russia need a buzzer zone. Do you think there’s even a 0.001% chance of NATO invading Russia?
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:21 am to S
quote:
Very comparable situation. What a retard
Yea ok Bud. Keep living in fantasy land.
1. There are certain words in this country that if you say you will lose your job and be ostracized from society. In Canada they are passing laws to make “hate speech” illegal. The Democrats would love that and they will try it here.
2. They want to make it illegal for you to own guns
3. The left controls almost the entirety of media and is their propaganda arm. How is this even still a debate after COVID?
So let’s see, they want to take away freedom of speech, the second amendment, and they control the flow of information.
We are closer than you think and you are the retard for not seeing it.
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 8:28 am
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:21 am to Ross
quote:
Ross
well put. It totally prevents any strategic, nuanced response to anything.
It also gives those in power the ability to concoct problems so they can squeeze the levers of power even tighter!
We definitely need a more honest media, but, unfortunately, it will likely take the destruction of everything we know about media in our lives. Our children will likely be exposed to the harsh reality of a once powerful civilization in rapid decline if we don't get back to the plumb line of first principles of liberty and justice! It will take an awakening of good morals and a total rejection of post-modernism!
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:22 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Basically what we’re doing now, but let’s at least be real about what’s going on there and not parrot Putin’s talking points because Tucker Carlson does.
Why did this pop off under Obama/Biden, go dormant under Trump, and escalate exponentially as soon as Biden took office?
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:22 am to Woolfman_8
quote:
Economy isn’t circling the toilet.
It absolutely is and anyone involved in supply chains and labor force issues can tell you that. We’re in a very critical and fragile state right now.
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