re: Most Veterans Say Wars in Iraq, Afghanistan Not Worth the Cost

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Did two tours in Afghanistan and the same problems existed. Lack of defining missions or end goal of what victory looked like. IMO we would’ve been much better off leaving it to HUMINT on the ground and drones for what was accomplished, namely disrupting terrorism

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The big issue is that there’s no end to wars like Afghanistan and Iraq. You basically just beat their numbers to a pulp and claim a victory, but Islamic extremism still exists and will continue to exist under many different names.

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If you didn't know any better perpetual war would be the end goal

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Nailed it

There is not supposed to be an end to these wars. The military contractor gravy train must be kept going at full capacity.

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if you asked the same people the same question circa 2003-2004, including me, the answer would have been overwhelmingly in favor.

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Same..Active June01-Jul11...Complete 180 on my views during those 10 years

Counter argument would be that Saddaam was the worst of the worst. Worse than all the others. If you count the Iran-Iraq war Saddaam killed more than ISIS could ever dream to. He just didn't brag about it on twitter. Not to mention all the Shiites and Kurds he gassed.

Difference between Saddaam and all the other despots was that he showed an actual willingness to invade other countries. Not sure he could be called stabilizing.

I remember when everyone was rah-rah, gung-ho to bring Saddam down. The alternative to these dictators around the world is often worse.

Add to that, many of these countries will never "get" democracy. Strong-armed leaders are what the minions want. Aside from the few with a decent education who tend to leave anyway.

To me, this is the defining line between the typical republican establishment and Trump. The party usually is a bunch of dipshit Warhawks but Trump didn't buy it. It's exposing what most Americans have never wanted or needed: war.

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But if you asked the same people the same question circa 2003-2004, including me, the answer would have been overwhelmingly in favor.

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Not me, I was opposed to it from the start, but I was one of probably only 3 or 4 guys in my unit that wasn't in favor of it, but I think most just wanted to check blocks (combat patch, CIB, etc...).

In the years immediately following I would regularly get called 'traitor' and 'un-American' by armchair commandos on the internet for expressing any opposition, even though I'd actually participated in it. Everyone likes to pretend they were against it from the beginning now but that's far from the case.

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Good job W and Dick

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This goes far beyond W and Cheney. The neocons voted for Hillary in 2016. Obama didn't end those Middle Eastern conflicts. He escalated wars in Libya and Syria and drone bombed another half dozen countries.

The fact is, every single establishment politician, be they Republican or Democrat, is a hyper-interventionist when it comes to foreign policy. Every single mainstream media organization is pro-war. It is the single most fundamental orthodoxy in American politics. It was why Ron Paul was ignored. It's why Tulsi Gabbard is ignored.

America is addicted to war. We are fed one foreign boogeyman after another so that our population remains scared enough to look aside while our treasury is looted and our liberties are destroyed.

:raiseshandinagreement: