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re: The Official Trade Proposal Thread
Posted on 6/8/24 at 7:11 am to Soggymoss
Posted on 6/8/24 at 7:11 am to Soggymoss
Here's my attempt at messing around with the trade machine
Cleveland: Ingram, Nance, Magic 2025 first
Magic: Garland
Pels: Allen, Suggs, Isaac
Why Cleveland does it: They give up more talent overall in this trade but clear almost 10 million in cap space, get a pick, and get Ingram who is an upgrade over Garland and a better 2 to Mitchell. Also there does seem to be the question of fit between Garland/Mitchell and Mobley/Allen. They solve those problems while getting the best player in the trade.
Why the Magic do it: They were one of the top defensive teams and one of the worst offensive teams last year. They get another young semi-all star caliber player to add to Wagner/Banchero who can help carry the offense.
Why the Pels do it: We instantly become the best defensive team in the league while also getting more shooting. This allows Trey to start and Suggs has also developed into a pretty good shooter at almost 40% on over 5 attempts per game while being one of the best perimeter defenders. Isaac can play the 4 and 5 off the bench and both him and Allen are good rim protectors while having the ability to switch onto perimeter players if they need.
If a CJ/Herb/Trey/Zion/Jonas lineup had a net rating of 15.5 imagine what could happen if you replace Jonas with Allen. Or even CJ with Suggs who adds a lot of defense without giving up too much shooting.
You also at the end of the game would have a lot of versatility with lineups. If you're up two in the last few seconds you could run a Suggs/Herb/Dyson/Isaac/Allen lineup where everyone is an elite level defender. Or if you need to score at the end you could run a CJ/Hawkins/Trey/Zion/Allen Lineup where Zion has three elite level shooters and an elite lob threat. Sub in Suggs for Allen if you need a three.
PG: CJ/Suggs/Jose
SG: Herb/Suggs/Hawkins
Sf: Trey/Dyson/Naji
PF: Zion/Isaac/Naji
C: Allen/Isaac/draft pick
Draft a back up big like Yves Missi or Kel'el Ware.
Cleveland: Ingram, Nance, Magic 2025 first
Magic: Garland
Pels: Allen, Suggs, Isaac
Why Cleveland does it: They give up more talent overall in this trade but clear almost 10 million in cap space, get a pick, and get Ingram who is an upgrade over Garland and a better 2 to Mitchell. Also there does seem to be the question of fit between Garland/Mitchell and Mobley/Allen. They solve those problems while getting the best player in the trade.
Why the Magic do it: They were one of the top defensive teams and one of the worst offensive teams last year. They get another young semi-all star caliber player to add to Wagner/Banchero who can help carry the offense.
Why the Pels do it: We instantly become the best defensive team in the league while also getting more shooting. This allows Trey to start and Suggs has also developed into a pretty good shooter at almost 40% on over 5 attempts per game while being one of the best perimeter defenders. Isaac can play the 4 and 5 off the bench and both him and Allen are good rim protectors while having the ability to switch onto perimeter players if they need.
If a CJ/Herb/Trey/Zion/Jonas lineup had a net rating of 15.5 imagine what could happen if you replace Jonas with Allen. Or even CJ with Suggs who adds a lot of defense without giving up too much shooting.
You also at the end of the game would have a lot of versatility with lineups. If you're up two in the last few seconds you could run a Suggs/Herb/Dyson/Isaac/Allen lineup where everyone is an elite level defender. Or if you need to score at the end you could run a CJ/Hawkins/Trey/Zion/Allen Lineup where Zion has three elite level shooters and an elite lob threat. Sub in Suggs for Allen if you need a three.
PG: CJ/Suggs/Jose
SG: Herb/Suggs/Hawkins
Sf: Trey/Dyson/Naji
PF: Zion/Isaac/Naji
C: Allen/Isaac/draft pick
Draft a back up big like Yves Missi or Kel'el Ware.
1
Posted on 6/8/24 at 9:42 am to Pels247
Magic- Garland, CJ, Capella
Cavs- BI, Wendell Carter, (2) 1st via Magic
Hawks: Suggs, Nance, (2) 1st
Pels: Murray, Allen, Issac, LaVert
Murray/ Jose
Herb/ LaVert/ Hawk
Trey/ Dyson/ Ryan
Zion/ Issac/
Allen/
Cavs- BI, Wendell Carter, (2) 1st via Magic
Hawks: Suggs, Nance, (2) 1st
Pels: Murray, Allen, Issac, LaVert
Murray/ Jose
Herb/ LaVert/ Hawk
Trey/ Dyson/ Ryan
Zion/ Issac/
Allen/
Posted on 6/8/24 at 9:54 am to Dantheman504
This would be the safe package to give us another shooter in LaVert.
I'd rather:
Hawks: Suggs, Nance, LaVert, (2) 1st
Which gives us 35 mil in cap space to do as we please.
I doubt you can do it with one of those guys coming off the bench but my target would be Miles Bridges.
Murray/ Jose
Bridges/ Herb/ Hawk
Trey/ Dyson/ Ryan
Zion/ Issac/
Allen/
I'd rather:
Hawks: Suggs, Nance, LaVert, (2) 1st
Which gives us 35 mil in cap space to do as we please.
I doubt you can do it with one of those guys coming off the bench but my target would be Miles Bridges.
Murray/ Jose
Bridges/ Herb/ Hawk
Trey/ Dyson/ Ryan
Zion/ Issac/
Allen/
This post was edited on 6/8/24 at 9:55 am
Posted on 6/8/24 at 12:08 pm to Dantheman504
I do like the idea of involving the Magic and sending Suggs to the Hawks to get them off their Herb obsession. But I feel the value is pretty uneven and just bad roster balance with both Garland and CJ going to the Magic.
I’m also not sure Griff would pull the trigger on both BI and CJ at the same time unless someone like Trae were coming back. I guess I don’t see Garland and CJ as the best fits either. So I guess some sort of CJ to Magic base framework with Suggs to Hawks or Cavs as a 2nd part of a BI trade makes some sense.
I’m also not sure Griff would pull the trigger on both BI and CJ at the same time unless someone like Trae were coming back. I guess I don’t see Garland and CJ as the best fits either. So I guess some sort of CJ to Magic base framework with Suggs to Hawks or Cavs as a 2nd part of a BI trade makes some sense.
This post was edited on 6/8/24 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 6/8/24 at 12:50 pm to Dantheman504
I love Jonathan Isaac but not as the backup to Zion at the 4. Last year proved his best position is the stretch 5 off the bench. He is a really good rim protector also so he blocks a lot of shots and rebounds well but can also come defend on the perimeter. Pair him with a traditional center like Walker Kessler and a PG like Dejounte Murray would be an interesting team to watch. I can’t see CJ or Herb being traded though. CJ maybe at the deadline or next year but not this offseason.
Posted on 6/8/24 at 1:36 pm to LSUPilot07
If we can’t get Trae, Mitchell, or any other star caliber player I hope we try to trade with Houston or Detroit. Either go all in or do what we should have done last year and take a small step back to retool.
Posted on 6/8/24 at 5:21 pm to Macintosh
Forget about Mitchell, Cleveland is building their team around him and Mobley. Garland, Trae Young, Dejounte Murray and Collin Sexton seem to be the main 4 tradable PG options. I like Murray over Young because he’s got size and length over Trae and is a great on ball defender that lets us lift t some of the pressure off Herb. He’s also a good scorer. Young scored more but took a lot more shots to do it. Murray is more efficient, especially from the 3 point line. He also makes half of what Young makes which gives the Pelicans more room to make moves.
Posted on 6/8/24 at 6:30 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
great on ball defender
I’ve seen a lot of Hawks fans say Murray took a huge step back as a defender and is overrated in that department.
Posted on 6/8/24 at 6:51 pm to jamal
The metrics don't disagree, he's been below average borderline bad there.
Posted on 6/8/24 at 7:18 pm to htran90
quote:
The metrics don't disagree, he's been below average borderline bad there.
The Trae Young effect….
Posted on 6/8/24 at 7:31 pm to TechTiger
I’m not sure what else is needed to make this happen but I think this mostly gets what everyone wants/needs
Pels get Dejounte Murray and Jarrett Allen
Hawks get Brandon Ingram, Tre Jones, #8, future Pels first
Cavs get De’Andre Hunter, Dyson Daniels, Zach Collins, future Spurs 1st
Spurs get Darius Garland and Larry Nance
Pels get Dejounte Murray and Jarrett Allen
Hawks get Brandon Ingram, Tre Jones, #8, future Pels first
Cavs get De’Andre Hunter, Dyson Daniels, Zach Collins, future Spurs 1st
Spurs get Darius Garland and Larry Nance
Posted on 6/8/24 at 7:46 pm to BallHawk
quote:
Cavs get De’Andre Hunter, Dyson Daniels, Zach Collins, future Spurs 1st
I don’t see why Cavs would do this.
Posted on 6/8/24 at 7:49 pm to Pels_Yaz
They get $12m in cap savings to get another player and someone to play on the wing. Daniels can be their pg of the future and pairs better with Mitchell than Garland does IMO
Posted on 6/8/24 at 7:56 pm to BallHawk
quote:
Daniels can be their pg of the future
Point guard of future?? You do realize if Dyson pairs with Mitchell- hes going to get constant double teams. I think Dyson may grow into a good player but I’m not sure many teams value him that high or think of him as a pg for the future.
I just think Cavs could easily get a better deal elsewhere for Allen.
This post was edited on 6/8/24 at 7:57 pm
Posted on 6/9/24 at 5:18 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I think Dyson may grow into a good player but I’m not sure many teams value him that high or think of him as a pg for the future.
Dyson is still only 21 -- younger than a lot of guys who will get drafted this year.
And, though it was constantly downplayed on this board, he made a big leap in offensive production last season.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. If Dyson were put back into this year's draft, he'd be a top-5 pick.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 7:48 am to jamal
quote:
I’ve seen a lot of Hawks fans say Murray took a huge step back as a defender and is overrated in that department.
He had more deflections this past year than Herb and Dyson.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 8:32 am to TeddyPadillac
And yet his advanced defensive stats are worse than CJ
Posted on 6/9/24 at 9:21 am to Pels247
I don't know much about Atlanta's defense, but if Murray was good defensively with the Spurs, and bad with the Hawks, who have had a bottom 10 defense since even before Trae got there, it might not be that Murray has regressed, just that he isn't good enough be a one man defense like Herb. But we don't need him to be Herb.
My expectation is that for the starting lineup
- Trey replaces BI which is a wash to slight upgrade on defense
- Murray replaces CJ, which should be a big boost on defense
- A more defensively skilled center replaces JV
We don't need Murray to be the best defender on the court, we just need him to be an upgrade over CJs defense and BI's 3 point shooting, ball handling and creation. He should be able to do all 3 of those.
My expectation is that for the starting lineup
- Trey replaces BI which is a wash to slight upgrade on defense
- Murray replaces CJ, which should be a big boost on defense
- A more defensively skilled center replaces JV
We don't need Murray to be the best defender on the court, we just need him to be an upgrade over CJs defense and BI's 3 point shooting, ball handling and creation. He should be able to do all 3 of those.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:24 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I don't know much about Atlanta's defense, but if Murray was good defensively with the Spurs, and bad with the Hawks, who have had a bottom 10 defense since even before Trae got there, it might not be that Murray has regressed, just that he isn't good enough be a one man defense like Herb. But we don't need him to be Herb.
Hawks fans are not wrong when saying he’s overrated defensively, his time in Atlanta showed that. They wanted him to take on all the tough wing assignments to cover for Trae, basically be their Jrue. Murray showed he’s not quite a good enough wing stopper to do that, mostly due to not being big enough. So yes he was overrated in that he’s not a Jrue-lite number 1 wing defender, but he’s still a plus defender at the 1 that can guard his position.
quote:
We don't need Murray to be the best defender on the court, we just need him to be an upgrade over CJs defense
Exactly. For what we would ask him to do on D, he would absolutely be an upgrade over CJ in that regard.
Posted on 6/9/24 at 10:35 am to TigerinATL
I assume when it comes to Murray it’s that as his offensive load increases his defensive impact decreases. His defensive lebron numbers were at its best his second to last year in San Antonio (1.44). His minutes and usage went up his last year in San Antonio and his defensive Lebron went down a good bit (.58). Those are still good numbers but down a good bit from the previous year. His numbers in Atlanta have been bad and got worse the second year.
Would not playing next to Young probably make him a better defensive player? Probably. But will he be able to return to being a good defensive player while maintaining a high offensive load? That remains to be seen. I think an Ingram-Murray straight up swap doesn’t really help much and might actually hurt us more.
Would not playing next to Young probably make him a better defensive player? Probably. But will he be able to return to being a good defensive player while maintaining a high offensive load? That remains to be seen. I think an Ingram-Murray straight up swap doesn’t really help much and might actually hurt us more.
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