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re: Pels/Cavs discuss Collin Sexton trade
Posted on 7/12/21 at 10:26 am to Soggymoss
Posted on 7/12/21 at 10:26 am to Soggymoss
quote:Well yea, but that's my concern.
You can always add more, as long as you're willing to pay the tax bill
I know it's been rumored that Gayle will be willing to go into the tax when ready to win, but willing to go into the tax isn't the same as willing to go deep into the tax for multiple years, so it does concern me that we couldn't add another star due to this.
2
Posted on 7/12/21 at 10:31 am to Fun Bunch
quote:If we could get him for that, we should make that move ASAP and figure out the contract later.
Sounds good to me. I too think the looming contract decision lessens his value quite a lot.
10 + Bledsoe is fine with me.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 10:31 am to shel311
Gayle would be willing to spend, as long as the city is willing to support the team. She cannot spend deep into the tax for 3/4 filled arenas.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 10:31 am to The Pirate King
I don’t think it would be wise to make or not make roster moves around a 19 year old undersized guard that averaged below 40% from the field and only 5 assists per 36.
I think Kira has borderline all star potential, but he also has journeyman as his floor.
I’m not sold on Sexton, who I think has a number of red flags as a player and contract, but I am sold on not letting a player like Kira dictate whether or not you make that move.
I think Kira has borderline all star potential, but he also has journeyman as his floor.
I’m not sold on Sexton, who I think has a number of red flags as a player and contract, but I am sold on not letting a player like Kira dictate whether or not you make that move.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 10:40 am to NOSHAU
quote:
If we could get him for that, we should make that move ASAP and figure out the contract later.
Yeah, its probably unrealistic. Probably have to add more. I'm just personally not too keen on adding young players like Kira or multiple 1st rounders.
Maybe some 2nds, or at most a pick swap going out a few years.
I just wouldn't give up TOO much for Sexton given the contract looming and the reports.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 11:38 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
I just wouldn't give up TOO much for Sexton given the contract looming and the reports.
I mean if those reports are true and they're 'not getting a top half pick'.
I wonder if Bledsoe + Kira + future 1st (2022 Pelicans top 10 protected) would be enough.
Kira is expendable considering the amount of guards we have, also assuming we're keeping Zo to make Zion happy.
Keeping this pick and getting a guy like Moody/Kispert could be a huge deal in depth and allowing development.
PG: Sexton/Veteran
SG: Ball/NAW/Didi
SF: Ingram/Kispert/Marshall
PF: Zion/Veteran Stretch 4/Gabriel
C: Adams/Hayes/Veteran
Posted on 7/12/21 at 11:41 am to shel311
quote:Well, we're never going to have 4 max players on the same team, so if we were looking to add a star after adding Sexton to Ingram and Zion, then we would most likely be trading away Sexton or Ingram in that move.
so it does concern me that we couldn't add another star due to this.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 11:48 am to htran90
quote:
I wonder if Bledsoe + Kira + future 1st (2022 Pelicans top 10 protected) would be enough.
i'd like that as well. find a way to keep #10 this year, or at least find a way to maybe trade down.
maybe you send Bledsoe/10 to OKC for 16/18 and bring back Kenny Hustle, and then send Kira and one of those firsts to Cleveland, maybe #35 too, for Sexton, that way we keep a first for this year.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 1:18 pm to Bronc
All advanced metrics show Sexton is a replacement level player, not a starter in the league, no thanks. Better off developing Kira and adding a better quality vet.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 1:24 pm to Mulkey Man
quote:
All advanced metrics show Sexton is a replacement level player,
Such as?
Just glancing, his PER is 18 which is above average for PGs/Gs. And in the top half of Starters.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 1:44 pm to Mulkey Man
Let’s see, I know he shoots the 3 & gets to the line well above average. Two of the most coveted skills in the nba today
Posted on 7/12/21 at 2:08 pm to Lester Earl
If you are trying to show Zion you are serious about winning, you trade Bledsoe and the #10 for a guy that absolutely helps you win now. The #10 pick does nothing to accelerate that timetable.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 2:18 pm to Mulkey Man
quote:
All advanced metrics show Sexton is a replacement level player, not a starter in the league
You are going to have to actually show these stats, b/c I’m not sure anyone believes that statement.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 2:42 pm to Mulkey Man
quote:Means little to say it. Please show the metrics that support this claim.
All advanced metrics show Sexton is a replacement level player, not a starter in the league, no thanks. Better off developing Kira and adding a better quality vet.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 2:52 pm to saints5021
quote:
If you are trying to show Zion you are serious about winning, you trade Bledsoe and the #10 for a guy that absolutely helps you win now. The #10 pick does nothing to accelerate that timetable.
You don't know what you are getting at #10. If it's an all-star caliber player, you'll know it from day 1.
And there shouldn't be this rush to win big now. We don't need to win a championship next year, or the next, we simply need to be a 45 win team at least, and make some noise in the playoffs. Do'nt even have to win the first round series, but at least look competitive in it. That's a successful season this year if you ask me. And then i'd expect to be better the next year.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 2:54 pm to NOSHAU
I don’t hate the idea of offloading Bledsoe and giving up a pick for frankly even a one year rental of Sexton. Instant offense and you get him in the building to see if he can be a long term piece. If so cool, if not, maybe he’s the bridge until NAW is ready for the every day starting spot.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 2:58 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Means little to say it. Please show the metrics that support this claim.
It’s funny how reactionary some of these posters are when they hear we are interested in Sexton. Right now, I honestly think he is the most gettable and needle moving acquisition available this offseason. Most of the other moves that have been discussed are not practical…..
Dame isn’t getting moved this offseason, Beal is too much of a risk and would require a bulk of our war chest, OKC will try to ring us dry for SGA, etc….
The dude is young and can flat out play. He’s what we need from the guard position to win right now, and the cost of getting him is palatable. It absolutely can’t be worse than what we have seen with our previous roster, and the offensive production compared to the potential defensive decline will equate to more wins than we should worry about anyway.
The team will play harder and be better defensively as a unit if they are winning, and we can’t sit here and try to develop young players when the guys we have don’t seem to give the effort. Maybe if they started winning more games, then they would care more about defensive effort. Part of that will come from the new coach, but Zion and Ingram have to believe the players around them will equate to winning basketball.
Posted on 7/12/21 at 3:13 pm to Mulkey Man
quote:
All advanced metrics show Sexton is a replacement level player, not a starter in the league, no thanks. Better off developing Kira and adding a better quality vet.
OK, let's look at a couple of advanced metrics, and the trajectory of the last three seasons: LINK
VORP (Value Over Replacement Player)
2018-19: (-4.7)
2019-20: 0.1
2020-21: 1.0
Win Shares
2018-19: (-0.6)
2019-20: 2.5
2020-21: 3.5
If you look at those and other stats, you see that Sexton is an improving player, and it's impossible to say what his ceiling will be. By the way, Kira's VORP was negative last season, and his WS was only 0.9 -- good for a rookie, but there's no way to know if he'll ever even be as good as Sexton was last season.
People here may not like the comparison, but Sexton is similar to Lonzo in that both of them have to be evaluated on potential growth, and not just past performance, and future growth is incredibly difficult to predict. Lonzo is a year older than Sexton and has been in the league one more year, but the similarities are otherwise strong. We are stuck right now with a difficult decision about Lonzo, and whichever team ends up with Sexton is going to face a similar decision next year.
But that's also why getting Sexton isn't going to cost that much.
This post was edited on 7/12/21 at 3:50 pm
Posted on 7/12/21 at 3:46 pm to GOP_Tiger
Not really the biggest fan of this dude but I’ll take it over Bledsoe. I’m in
Posted on 7/12/21 at 3:51 pm to GOP_Tiger
Cavs: Kira, Bled, Adams, #16
OKC: #10
Pels: Sexton, Love, #18
That's as good a deal as any that would be available for them this offseason imo. They get a young guy back, we get off Bled and Adams, OKC trades up, we still have the money to bring Lonzo back, and we keep a 1st rounder to get a guy we like (Garuba, Springer?). Love stays healthier not having to play a bunch of minutes and shouldering a heavy load, then we send him off at the deadline for a couple more assets.
Sexton/NAW/FA (Burks?)
Lonzo/NAW/Didi
Ingram/Naji/Didi
Zion/Love/Garuba
Hayes/Willy/FA
That would be a pretty deep team, with plenty of salary and assets still left to go get someone like Sabonis to round out the roster.
OKC: #10
Pels: Sexton, Love, #18
That's as good a deal as any that would be available for them this offseason imo. They get a young guy back, we get off Bled and Adams, OKC trades up, we still have the money to bring Lonzo back, and we keep a 1st rounder to get a guy we like (Garuba, Springer?). Love stays healthier not having to play a bunch of minutes and shouldering a heavy load, then we send him off at the deadline for a couple more assets.
Sexton/NAW/FA (Burks?)
Lonzo/NAW/Didi
Ingram/Naji/Didi
Zion/Love/Garuba
Hayes/Willy/FA
That would be a pretty deep team, with plenty of salary and assets still left to go get someone like Sabonis to round out the roster.
This post was edited on 7/12/21 at 3:54 pm
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