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Started By
Message
re: Pels are registering interest in Detroit’s Bogdanovich per Shams
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:55 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:55 am to TigerinATL
The numbers I came up with include signing EJ to a full contract at the end of the season like we have done with Naji and Jose in the past, so I subtracted that money.
If we have an open roster spot you can pretty much assure that we would sign him.
If we have an open roster spot you can pretty much assure that we would sign him.
2
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:05 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
I don't know if I can trust these guys to stay healthy in the regular season. If we want to let them sit until they're 101%, they need to go get a guy that can help them stay afloat while they're out.
When you are spending $100M+/yr on 3 guys, and they are you're 3 best players, you shouldn't have to go find another $20M/yr player to help you out b/c two of them are hurt all the time. That is a dumb reason to give up assets for a 33 year old.
That's why you have three $30M/yr guys. One goes down and it shoudln't really hurt you during the regular season. You aren't winning a championship unless all 3 are healthy anyway, so it really makes no difference if Bogdanovich is on this team or not. If the 3 main guys aren't healthy we aren't winning shite.
Now does he help you win a championship when all 3 guys are healthy? I'd say you'd be better off with a guy that can shoot wide open 3's and play great defense, and that's not Bogdanivich.
we are not going to build a championship team with the mindset that someone will be injured for the championship game.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:08 pm to TeddyPadillac
You need to make the playoffs don't you? If we lose 3-5 more games, we're basically falling like Phoenix. We are already steadily sliding.
You don't think a guy like Brogdan can be a valuable championship piece off the bench? I beg the differ.
You don't think a guy like Brogdan can be a valuable championship piece off the bench? I beg the differ.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:13 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
The numbers I came up with include signing EJ to a full contract at the end of the season like we have done with Naji and Jose in the past, so I subtracted that money.
If we have an open roster spot you can pretty much assure that we would sign him.
Not if it pushes you over the tax. If they were to do this deal it's because they are convinced it pushes them up a level. They wouldn't let EJ Lidell be the road block that keeps it from happening.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:24 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
You don't think a guy like Brogdan can be a valuable championship piece off the bench? I beg the differ.
You're not getting 25ppg Bogdan when all 3 are healthy.
but yes of course i think he would be valuable, but you bring him on and there's no getting out of the tax the next two years. The point is can you find someone for half that money to be a 3&D role player for us, and i think you can.
We should not be looking for a scorer like Bogdan to help us win. When healthy, we have all the scoring we need. We simply need role players, and the role Bogdan plays doesn't really fit what we would need when everyone is healthy.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:26 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
When you are spending $100M+/yr on 3 guys, and they are you're 3 best players, you shouldn't have to go find another $20M/yr player to help you out b/c two of them are hurt all the time. That is a dumb reason to give up assets for a 33 year old.
That's why you have three $30M/yr guys. One goes down and it shoudln't really hurt you during the regular season. You aren't winning a championship unless all 3 are healthy anyway, so it really makes no difference if Bogdanovich is on this team or not. If the 3 main guys aren't healthy we aren't winning shite.
Now does he help you win a championship when all 3 guys are healthy? I'd say you'd be better off with a guy that can shoot wide open 3's and play great defense, and that's not Bogdanivich.
we are not going to build a championship team with the mindset that someone will be injured for the championship game.
Exactly. Which is why Alec Burks should be the target. Not Bojan
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:29 pm to TeddyPadillac
We don't need 25ppg from him. But we can use a guy who can be the reliable bench scorer and floor spacer when your stars are in the game.
He solves 3 problems for this group. He is an additional shooter we can really use, a reliable scorer off the bench, and a durable player who you can legitimately start when your stars are injured.
That's far more valuable than another limited role player. We have plenty of those already.
He solves 3 problems for this group. He is an additional shooter we can really use, a reliable scorer off the bench, and a durable player who you can legitimately start when your stars are injured.
That's far more valuable than another limited role player. We have plenty of those already.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:42 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
We don't need 25ppg from him. But we can use a guy who can be the reliable bench scorer and floor spacer when your stars are in the game.
He solves 3 problems for this group. He is an additional shooter we can really use, a reliable scorer off the bench, and a durable player who you can legitimately start when your stars are injured.
That's far more valuable than another limited role player. We have plenty of those already.
Burks can give you all of those things at a cheaper price.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:54 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
You don't have to fill 2 roster spots, but you do have to fill 1 and get to 14.
Pels are currently $3.5 million away from the tax, so you have to include Kira rather than Billy.
Bogy + Noel = $28.8
Graham/Jax/Kira/Temple = $27.5
You've added $1.2 million so still have $2.3 million to fill the 14th spot.
Veteran minimum contracts are subsidized so for tax purposes they are treated like a 2nd year minimum ($1.7 million). LINK So you could add someone from the buyout market to the 14th spot, meet the roster requirements and still be under the tax by about $600k. Burks makes $800k more than Noel so you can't swap him for Noel and make the money work unless you also moved Billy for less money coming back.
^Exactly something akin to this would happen. Could easily do right by Billy to move him somewhere for a 2nd/cash so he can get his playing time.
That allows you to take Burks, and then you add a vet C on buyout market (like Tristan Thompson, etc.) you could convert Seabron at end of season, etc.
Also, don't forget you don't have to be UNDER tax until June 30th.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:56 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
The numbers I came up with include signing EJ to a full contract at the end of the season like we have done with Naji and Jose in the past, so I subtracted that money.
If we have an open roster spot you can pretty much assure that we would sign him.
Someone pointed out to Shamit on twitter today the Pels signed EJ to a two year two way, which gives them the option to wait until last minute to convert him to full, or even wait until July to do it for flexibility purposes. So I don't think that would be a road block
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:58 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
We don't need 25ppg from him
but that's what you are paying for.
quote:
a reliable scorer off the bench
we don't need this, and when healthy we don't have the shots to give to that guy which means you aren't utilizing that persons full potential, hence you are overpaying.
quote:
He is an additional shooter
we need this, but we also need that person to be able to play good defense.
That's Alec Burks, and i've been saying to trade for him for 3 years now.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:16 pm to TeddyPadillac
Maybe the trade to make is Burks/Noel for Graham/Hayes. The problem is the Pistons probably don't want Hayes since they just gave a deal to Bagley. We'd need a 3rd team involved, probably the Knicks like you've kicked around before.
Pistons get Fournier and their future 1st back from the Knicks.
Knicks get Hayes/Graham
Pels get Burks/Noel
Knicks pay to turn Fournier into to useful players. Graham plays the kind of defense coaches love and has a reputation as a shooter. Hayes may not be a rim protector but as a big wing and weak side shot blocker he's pretty good. Thibs can figure something out I'm sure.
Pistons get a 1st (their own pick back) and send out expendable vets to eat a bad contract which is exactly what a rebuilding team should do.
Pels get 2 guys that immediately upgrade the guys they send out. I'm not even sure adding seconds to make this happen is needed.
Pistons get Fournier and their future 1st back from the Knicks.
Knicks get Hayes/Graham
Pels get Burks/Noel
Knicks pay to turn Fournier into to useful players. Graham plays the kind of defense coaches love and has a reputation as a shooter. Hayes may not be a rim protector but as a big wing and weak side shot blocker he's pretty good. Thibs can figure something out I'm sure.
Pistons get a 1st (their own pick back) and send out expendable vets to eat a bad contract which is exactly what a rebuilding team should do.
Pels get 2 guys that immediately upgrade the guys they send out. I'm not even sure adding seconds to make this happen is needed.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:17 pm to pjk481
I’ve never heard of that, and Shamit blocked me awhile back, so thanks for the info
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:18 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Graham plays the kind of defense coaches love
What?
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:22 pm to ghost2most
quote:
Graham plays the kind of defense coaches love
What?
Larry Nance Jr. himself gave Devonte a ton of praise on a local podcast for his defense. He said he was "outstanding" at team defense and one of the best he's played with. He does all of the little things like hedging off his man enough to cut off driving lanes. It's the stuff coaches love that fans don't appreciate. All we see is Devonte switched onto a bigger man who shot right over him. Coaches see that Devonte was exactly where they wanted him to be so the system didn't break down.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:24 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Exactly. Which is why Alec Burks should be the target. Not Bojan
I still like Kelly Olynyk as well…legit stretch 4/5 at 6-11/240 and top 20 in 3pt% (can backup JV or play next to him at times) that will compete on defense even when overmatched. $12mm (like the $10mm for Burks) fits through next season if we move Graham.
A guy like Coby White is potentially interesting too…he’s kindof got a CJ ‘lite’ thing to his game and is still young enough to improve on D. Would need to be a sign and trade but if the price isn’t ridiculous (somewhere in the $10+mm range) he could be a great bench piece.
Luke Kennard may not be gettable, but he would fit at the 2 and could play next to CJ at the point, or come off the bench. He’s at $14.7mm for the next 2 seasons. Corey Kispert seems similar and younger (bigger too at 6-7 but even worse on D), still on his rookie contract till next year.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:29 pm to Bronc
quote:
It's reputation as being more hostile to black people than other major cities seems to persist.
On a trip to Boston this summer, I learned that they:
A. call chocolate sprinkles for ice cream "jimmies", and
B. It's a shout out to Jim Crow
Add in crazy real estate prices, shitty weather (during the season) and high taxes...
The math checks out.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:29 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Larry Nance Jr. himself gave Devonte a ton of praise on a local podcast for his defense. He said he was "outstanding" at team defense and one of the best he's played with. He does all of the little things like hedging off his man enough to cut off driving lanes. It's the stuff coaches love that fans don't appreciate. All we see is Devonte switched onto a bigger man who shot right over him. Coaches see that Devonte was exactly where they wanted him to be so the system didn't break down.
So what exactly is happening when he's in the game because our defense looks like shite the minute he's on the court?
This seems like one of those situations where maybe Graham knows what he should be doing but is incapable of doing it, so what difference does it make? The end result is still negative.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:30 pm to Soggymoss
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:33 pm to ghost2most
quote:
So what exactly is happening when he's in the game because our defense looks like shite the minute he's on the court?
I think that has more to do with Jax's minutes coinciding with Graham's minutes.
Graham is small so there will always be issues there, but he works his arse off on defense.
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