BamaPelican

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He actually didn’t though. Stats say yes but he was Angel Reeseing. 3 tap misses twice a game gave him like 5-6 offensive rebounds that led to no points.

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To be fair, that is true of a lot of offensive rebounders.

Also, one bright spot, JRE was right behind Zeller, JV, and Nance in OR% (7.8% and total 12.7) and a bit ahead of Zion.

The real issue is that JV is an elite rebounder.

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I think that is an overall better team because I believe Murray is going to fit very well with Zion and that is largely all that matters. But man do we have a black hole at center.

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Not just center, but rebounding overall. Losing top 3 rebounders, and 6 of top 8 (in per 36 and TRB%) with JRE being 4th, and Zion being 7th in that list. *Theis (or Karlo using G League stats) would have been 4th on the list if he was a Pel last season.

Going to be interesting…would really love if Griff picked up another big bodied guy that has some experience getting the dirty work done.

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Bro please recount

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LOL...I just mean the top 8 is the interesting part of the roster*...nothing wrong with JRE, Hawk or the other young guys.

*they are also the guys with a positive VORP last year...but I probably mostly stopped at 8 because I had to go to there to get a 5 in the group

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Even if you don't like the Theis signing he should be able to give us close to what Nance gave us. And while i was a huge fan of Naji's game I don't think we will miss him that much with the roster as currently constructed. JV is obviously a big loss. The biggest difficulty will be trying to find minutes for all the players that we have outside of center.

But my main point is I think we will be better because Murray will help CJ, Ingram, Herb, Trey, and Zion all play better this year. And they will make him better than any year he has ever had. If whoever comes off the bench fully embraces that role then I think we could be better next year. Especially if we can get at least some other decent center like Reed. But I guess we will see.

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Don't take it too hard...this is a weirdly down thread. Your take is what most people think. The Pels have gotten better already and have moves to make since they got better without hamstringing themselves.

The only significant loss is at the 5* and we just drafted a young athletic guy, picked up a cheap Vet**, and likely aren't done yet.

*Naji was a luxury but there just aren't enough minutes for him on this roster to justify the cost. Same with Dyson. Neither of those guys would play much on this roster.

**Theis is a really good pickup for the Pels. He is better than Zeller and although he probably isn't the overall player Larry is, particularly as a passer and on defensive anticipation, he may be a better fit since he is a better rim protector and offensive rebounder while still costing like Zeller.

As you mentioned, the Pels pick up a Reed and this roster is tough, or Griff makes another move and its potentially even better.

PG - DJM, Jose
SG - CJ, Hawk, Reeves
SF - BI, Herb/Trey, Ryan
PF - Zion, JRE
C - _____, Theis, Missi

Warren Buffett says the thing he tries to do is sell when others want to buy, and buy when others want to sell.

We know BI is a very good player, his contract will be what it will be, but there is no doubt he is a good player.

Maybe teams value other players more, IMO we have 3 potential starters at SF on the roster with BI being the most proven.

As much as I like them all, I might be inclined to swap things up if someone significantly values one of the other guys more, and use that leverage to round out whatever is needed in other places (players, picks, salary cap…it all matters).

Not saying that’s what Griff does but the reality is everything should be on the table and evaluated. If it’s BI, ok, but if the team gets better with another mix then that works too.

The reality is the Pels have an excess of good players at one position, and anyone acting like any of them are negative assets is just working an angle.

The struggles in late game and lack of 4th qtr comebacks is a real thing. Zion has all the talent in the world, but he isn’t really the ideal last shot guy at the moment.

Usually the best of those guys are physically dominate (Zion-check; BI-not check; CJ-not check), three level scorers (Zion-not check; BI-sorta check; CJ-check) that can take whatever the defense leaves open.

Zion is the only guy that has the pure physical mismatch ability to be next level dominant, but he needs to expand his repertoire (which also would likely reduce injuries and extend his career) and has a long way to go (to be fair so did a lot of physically dominant superstars at first).

We have a very well rounded roster and we’ve seen the benefits, but most nba championship contenders/champions have at least one elite end of game closer and I still don’t think we know who that is for the Pels.

Zion shot chart rookie season - LINK

Lebron Shot Chart Rookie Season - LINK

Zion Shot Chart This Season - LINK

I’m still hopeful because Zion is young and super talented, but you’re not wrong about Zion really only having one trick. He bullies to the paint and flips a layup with his left hand…that’s the move.

What’s crazy is it still works a lot, because of his physical gifts, but he clearly hasn’t put in the work a professional should to expand his skills and become a better player. So it’s not just the fitness issue with Zion, there are legitimate concerns about most areas of his commitment to the craft.

He can be a very useful player simply based on his physical gifts but the potential is really uncharted.

Can you imagine Zion with Kobe’s kind of drive to work and dominate? Unfortunately it simply isn’t there…really Zion should have started the game being pissed at the Lebron show and wanting to make that guy realize he needs to retire, but instead it was our young buck that looked like he didn’t belong.

It’s sad but it is what it is. The bright side is we have other good players and the team can win a lot of games with them, and Zion will be a big part of that even if he never really improves much, so long as he can stay available.

Naji was +25 :)

I still haven't seen a single live game on the Bally's app so far this year...including this one...really just about as ridiculous of a situation as I've seen for a basic consumer service. Basically Bally's is just stealing from people at this point.

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Zion/ Nance/ Liddell/ Trey/ BI/ Herb Is the most depth we’ve had in a long time.

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Unfortunately only 2 of them (Zion/Liddell) actually are PFs…Nance could play some 4, but at this point he pretty clearly will only play the small ball 5 for the Pels, and Trey/BI/Herb are all 2/3s that have just been stuck at the 4 as a battle field promotion because no one else was available, and they struggled at it.

Maybe gaining some mass helps those last 3 hold up better, but none of them are known for their rebounding or banging/interior defense.

Basically the front office is running it back with very little changing. If the Pels are healthy then we will likely be very happy with the result, I just would’ve liked to see us add a flyer on a floor spacing 4/5 rather than relying completely on Liddell and better front line health.

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Because he has the size that most our wings don't. He's basically Temple by the time Liddell is completely ready which shouldn't be too long. He'd basically be a 15th guy. Nance doesn't even play PF for us so I doubt he's in the equation when you talk about the PF position. Not many guys are going to sign here to play that type of role especially when you're basically looking to sign a minimum contract. Not even sure Gay would even consider that. You can say you rather an unknown but they clearly want another vet at this point.

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If the front office wants a veteran PF, I wouldn’t hate looking at Markieff Morris (although I would rather go younger)…34, former champ, decent shooter for a 4. His efficiency has fallen off, but I would rather him than Gay.

I still would rather see the Pels find a way to give Trendon Watford a look on the cheap though…younger, showed some good potential, local background guy. Even a second look at Wenyan Gabriel would probably be preferable too.

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All of this is wrong.

Karlo is a great athlete, that's like his whole thing. He's very bouncy and moves his feet well on the perimeter

EJ measured 6'7 in shoes with a 7ft wingspan at the combine. Thats plenty of length

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Sorry, but its not.

EJ measured 6'5.5" with an 8'7.5" standing reach at the combine. That is small for an NBA PF.

Matkovic is a C in a stretch PF's body, unfortunately he can't really shoot, but he has a bunch of head below the rim dunks on guys playing in the 8th best professional league that has caused some fans to get excited.

Trust me, I want them to be great, but there is a reason they weren't big time lottery picks.

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I've been calling for Eubanks since early last year. He'd be a really good fit here for cheap. His shooting stroke even looks pretty good, too.

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Kelly Olynyk looks like he will be out on the Jazz after the John Collins trade, either because they don’t pick up his option or via trade. He’s getting older but still played well last year and would provide a stretch 4/5 backup with legit length without blowing the budget.

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A backup rim-protecting center (assuming we re-sign JV). Depth chart is now:
CJ/Dyson/Jose/Kira
Herb/Hawkins/Temple
BI/Trey/Naji
Zion/Nance/Lidell
JV/Billy

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Nance has played almost exclusively at the 5 for the Pels and I think we should expect that to continue and Nance to be the primary backup to JV. And we can’t be keeping Temple on the roster, right?

With that depth chart change we still have a ton of guard oriented wings (enough that it creates a minutes crunch), and only have Liddell backing up Zion, which is better than no one (what we had last season), but clearly we need EJ to be solid given Zions history.

With the Pels being so stacked with guys that fit at the 2/3 spot I was hoping we would could get a bit more 4/5 depth, particularly given health concerns and since the 2 PFs we have are more girth than length and don’t provide a lot of rim protection rotating behind our 5s.

I still think that upgrading the 4 spot is more economically feasible than trying to upgrade the 5 position and if any moves are made I hope that’s where Griff looks.

**Killed me that the Clippers took Kobe Brown in the first round, I loved him as a 2nd (if the Pels found one), or UDFA pickup behind Zion.

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You could probably get him in the 20s honestly.

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Trade back, pick up a second and take Kobe Brown. I'm good with that...have a solid group of cheap young PFs behind Zion while staying under the cap and having a ton of flexibility if roster opportunities arise.