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re: House of the Dragon - Episode 2.2 - Spoilers okay
Posted on 6/25/24 at 5:23 pm to Jorts R Us
Posted on 6/25/24 at 5:23 pm to Jorts R Us
quote:
You're not speaking to culpability, though. Investment and loss is not culpability.
As for Daemon, you're talking about accountability, not culpability. The show very obviously shows his role in escalating this conflict. With Alicent and Rhaenyra they are adding things to the story that weren't in the books that cast them in a better light.
Plus, ya know….Rhanaeyra did say “bring me Aemond Targaryen’s head”
So Daemon did the queen’s bidding. Not his fault Blood and Cheese fricked it all up.
2
Posted on 6/25/24 at 5:37 pm to grizzlylongcut
quote:
So Daemon did the queen’s bidding. Not his fault Blood and Cheese fricked it all up.
The show doesn’t really make that clear. It’s cuts away from Daemon when they ask him what if they can’t find Aemond. Yes, Daemon denied it, but of course he did.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 5:53 pm to grizzlylongcut
quote:
Rhanaeyra did say “bring me Aemond Targaryen’s head”
She didn't say that. She just said bring me Aemond Targaryen. Not Aemon Targaryen's head.
Easy to assume that and I wouldn't have said anything except you used quotes, and that's not her actual quote.
Don't be mad at me.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 6:13 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:
the H'towers were in Westeros even before the first men
??
Posted on 6/25/24 at 6:32 pm to cgrand
quote:
the whole scene with the Eric’s I was kind of put off by rhaenyra cowering in the corner. At least shithead aegon would have grabbed a sword
Agreed on the first part, but I am not buying that the little shite-weasel Aemon is grabbing a sword there. He may be willing to beat a guy to death who is all tied up at his mercy, but no way do I think he is willing to take on a trained guardsman.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 8:49 pm to King George
quote:
Absolving characters from guilt or selfish motivations by making deliberate moves into "oopsies".
I think this whole idea that the showrunners are “absolving” characters is, quite frankly, a shitty take.
Most people, even when they make really fricking terrible decisions, generally do so with at least some degree of good intentions. And they usually believe they’re doing the “right” thing (however they choose to define that). The most selfish people rarely realize that they are being selfish.
That’s a pretty strong theme in the show. It was a pretty strong theme in GOT as well with the exception of a few outliers (Joffrey, Ramsey).
The classic example I’ve seen posted is Alicent’s “misunderstanding” of Viserys on his deathbed. I - and I imagine most viewers - did not perceive it as absolving her at all. They made fairly clear that she was concerned about the safety of her sons when Viserys was nearing the end. She heard what she wanted to hear, and then organized a coup.
Her motivation is protecting her family, probably with a side of general narcissism. She justifies it to herself based on Viserys’ gibberish on his deathbed. The show makes clear that she thinks she’s right. That’s not “absolving” anyone. Her own father clearly doesn’t even believe that Viserys actually named Aegon as his heir considering his conversation with Aegon in this episode.
Rhaenyra was petulant as heir and refused to do the things that would be necessary to strengthen her position. She might have thought that the rules weren’t fair, but it seems pretty clear that she could have prevented the war as well, had she swallowed her pride.
They are nuanced characters with complex motivations, and for the most part I think the show has done a pretty good job of making their failures clear while also letting us understand why they made those decisions, right or wrong.
Posted on 6/25/24 at 9:38 pm to The_Joker
quote:I would definitely tap the brakes on that. He's a good psycho retard, but that's really all he is. He knows he has favor with the queen, so he's an emboldened psycho retard, but Joffrey and Ramsay were like artists at being pieces of shite.
Fabien Frankel as Criston Cole is on another level. He’s so good at being a smug, hypocritical piece of absolute human garbage. Even as a borderline secondary character he’s absolutely reached the same level of hatred as Joffrey and Ramsay
Posted on 6/26/24 at 1:22 am to blueboy
quote:
I would definitely tap the brakes on that. He's a good psycho retard, but that's really all he is.
Not really. Joffrey and Ramsey were meant to be hated from their first scene.
Cole didn’t start out that way. He was pretty likable in S1 until Rhaenyra the heir to the Iron Throne turns down his offer to run away and be poor forever in Essos. That started the spiral into the human scum he is now.
When he first came on screen he was a cool young knight that everyone rooted for. Now I hate him more than anyone on this show. That takes good writing and acting.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 7:18 am to Draco Malfoy
Am I the only one who was waiting for the kid's head to fall off when the wagon got stuck?
Posted on 6/26/24 at 7:46 am to The_Joker
quote:So, not when he beat that queer to death in front of 200 people?
He was pretty likable in S1 until Rhaenyra the heir to the Iron Throne turns down his offer to run away and be poor forever in Essos
quote:Not seeing it. I always thought he was kind of a creep. Anyway, he's not smart enough to be up to Joffrey and Ramsay levels. His twin plan failed exactly how the viewer imagined it would when he hatched it.
When he first came on screen he was a cool young knight that everyone rooted for
He probably won't get it this season. Maybe next.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:01 am to MorbidTheClown
quote:
Am I the only one who was waiting for the kid's head to fall off when the wagon got stuck?
absolutely not.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:05 am to blueboy
quote:
His twin plan failed exactly how the viewer imagined it would when he hatched it.
I don't know if it was meant to succeed. Seemed to me that he wanted Arryk gone as he was the only person (besides Alicent, Helaena, and Larys) that could point the finger at Cole for being off station when the kid was killed.
This post was edited on 6/26/24 at 8:06 am
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:32 am to King George
quote:You must not be looking.
Not much else on television I guess.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:33 am to Indefatigable
Not sure that was the reason. Just prior to the scene where Cole approaches Arryk he’s watching the servants take the baby cradle out while cleaning the room and he sees the blood soaked comforter. He was supposed to be watching the queen and her children but instead he was banging Alicent. Cole feels guilty and enraged with himself so he projects his anger onto Arryk then sends him to Dragonstone to redeem himself.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:38 am to Madking
Definitely some of that as well. Just thought it looked like a switch flipped when Arryk said "And where were you, Lord Commander?"
I don't remember if F&B went into any detail on that plot though. It was definitely half-baked in any event.
I don't remember if F&B went into any detail on that plot though. It was definitely half-baked in any event.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:43 am to Indefatigable
Yea it’s definitely possible his motives were as you’re suggesting I just thought the sequence of scenes was the writers telling us what motivated him.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:45 am to Madking
This is the fun part of interpreting this show compared to GOT. There's alot more filling in the details given the format of F&B compared to ASOIAF 
Posted on 6/26/24 at 9:02 am to Indefatigable
It’s great and it’s because they don’t constantly fill the shows with exposition and needless dialogue. Contrast this show to most shows from this era. HOD shows you and uses its actors abilities to convey messages non verbally which also leaves room for interpretation. Most other shows have characters over explaining exactly what they’re doing and what they’re thinking non stop which makes shows boring and not believable because humans don’t communicate that way.
This post was edited on 6/26/24 at 9:03 am
Posted on 6/26/24 at 9:15 am to blueboy
quote:
Not seeing it. I always thought he was kind of a creep. Anyway, he's not smart enough to be up to Joffrey and Ramsay levels. His twin plan failed exactly how the viewer imagined it would when he hatched it.
Wrong! He absolutely was the cool, young knight! He is also the hottest guy on this show, so certainly all the women were rooting for him. But through the writing and acting, he has been able to make us all hate him. Not sure why you thought Joffrey and Ramsay were so smart. Didn't really seem like it to me. Especially Joffrey. He got played by an old lady! Those 2 were more egotistical, selfish, and mistook power and cruelty for leadership. Ramsay and Joffrey compare much more to Aegon, who's cruelty we saw before he ascended to the throne when they were searching for him.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 9:22 am to LaLadyinTx
Only time Joffrey was smart was when he figured out dragons were a threat while Tywin brushed them off.
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