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re: Game of Thrones S8E5 "The Bells" is officially the worst reviewed GOT episode yet
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:23 am to RB10
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:23 am to RB10
quote:
He told his sister that she's not actually his sister. The only people guilty of treason in this instance are Sansa and Varys.
You are being intentionally obtuse if you are simplifying the implications of what he told Sansa down to family tree. He told a high born lady who dislikes the invader that the invader has no right to anything.
I brought up George o Leary. If his wife told a Notre Dame administratior that he never got a masters. Wouldn’t you take that as her getting him fired? It’s all truth. She didn’t ask for him to get fired but ip so facto its getting him fired. Jon told the ladies of a Major house that Dany has no justification ipso facto he betrayed her and committed treason. It may be truth. It may be right. But at the time she is essentially the ruler of the north due to Jon bending the knee.
1
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:24 am to RollTide1987
people getting worked by the heel turn
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:25 am to Adam Banks
quote:
You are being intentionally obtuse if you are simplifying the implications of what he told Sansa down to family tree. He told a high born lady who dislikes the invader that the invader has no right to anything.
No. I'm just saying something that wasn't treason, wasn't treason.
quote:quote:
Jon told the ladies of a Major house that Dany has no justification ipso facto he betrayed her and committed treason
Wrong. He told them he had a right to the throne that he was choosing not to exercise.
Pretty big difference there.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:27 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:25 am to RB10
quote:
Killing two opposing leaders to make a point is not equatable to destroying an entire city when it's defenses had already been destroyed.
Yep. I don't know how many ways it can be said. If her going Mad Queen is the result they wanted, that's fine. That makes her torching thousands of innocent people to get what she wants make sense.
She has shown small glimpses of this throughout the show. However, she still had her morality and sanity that helped bring her off the edge.
The issue is that the way they wrote and enacted her jumping off that ledge could have been done so much better.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:27 am to RB10
quote:
Burn millions of people unnecessarily just because? Absolutely not.
Millions of people huh?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:30 am to RB10
quote:If she's willing to murder one and personally watch him fry for a few feet away merely to set an example for the realm, when things are going well (3 dragons, all advisers alive, no threat to her birthright, hasn't been through many horrors, etc.), then murdering many to set an example when things had gone terribly (2 dead dragons, most advisers are either dead or she believes betrayed her, a huge threat to her birthright, just went through some terrible horrors, etc.).
None of this comes close to going into a city of millions,
I mean there are countless examples of people gaining power, EVEN TO OVERTHROW A TERRIBLE RULER, and the citizens are relatively safe for a while, but as soon as things go bad, and the citizens start to protest and become resistant, all of a sudden they are jailed, tortured, murdered, etc.
Look at Venezuela. OR even better, look at Syria. Assad was in power for over a decade, and he had people believing he was reforming, going to do good for his people and the region. But as soon as things got bad, he basically went from a reformer to a war-criminal.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:30 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Millions of people huh?
I honestly can't remember what the population was presented as. Millions, hundreds of thousands. Subtle distinction in regards to the discussion being had.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:31 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:That's part of my point. No it wasnt. Theres nothing about it that added any significance. It is to you because you have decided what you watched is insignificant in comparison. All I'm saying that is not a constructive reason to say something was done poorly.
That options would have been better. How are you still not getting this?
quote:
I've yet to do that
Bruh. You engaged me
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:33 am to RB10
quote:
Wrong. He told them he had a right to the throne that he was choosing not to exercise. Pretty big difference there.
Which he was specifically told not to do because the information would be used to ursurp her claim. Which is exactly what happened.
Commanded not to. Did it anyways. Caused a sequence of events to undermine her claim. Betrayal at minimum treason arguable
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:34 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:33 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
If she's willing to murder one and personally watch him fry for a few feet away merely to set an example for the realm, when things are going well (3 dragons, all advisers alive, no threat to her birthright, hasn't been through many horrors, etc.), then murdering many to set an example when things had gone terribly (2 dead dragons, most advisers are either dead or she believes betrayed her, a huge threat to her birthright, just went through some terrible horrors, etc.).
Taking down the red keep is setting an example. Publicly executing Cersei and the Lannister generals is setting an example.
Killing everyone is, again, genocide.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:35 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:33 am to buckeye_vol
People act like Danynis the same person who walked up to Meereen and said “free yourselves here are some swords” and it worked.
This Dany isn’t that girl. Shits gone sideways for Dany.
If you were told you gotta care about peasants andnit cost you 1/3 children and your 2 best friends and the people still liked just some guy better than you, how would you feel?
This Dany isn’t that girl. Shits gone sideways for Dany.
If you were told you gotta care about peasants andnit cost you 1/3 children and your 2 best friends and the people still liked just some guy better than you, how would you feel?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:34 am to Adam Banks
quote:
Which he was specifically told not to do because the information would be used to ursurp her claim. Which is exactly what happened.
This doesn't make what he did treason. Those who used it to try and usurp her committed the treason.
This really isn't that complicated.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:35 am to prplhze2000
I don't think Ep 5 was as bad as 3 and 4. Lots of aggravation with how the NK and 3ER played out. I like the Dany going mad angle and how Jon will deal with it. Seems like it would take more than 1 more episode to work it out though. I think that is why the page count for E5 is less than 3 or 4.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:36 am to CajunTiger_225
quote:
That's part of my point. No it wasnt. Theres nothing about it that added any significance. It is to you because you have decided what you watched is insignificant in comparison. All I'm saying that is not a constructive reason to say something was done poorly.
You don't think having her see her other child die from a trick when she thought they were surrendering to her adds nothing?
Not 20 minutes before she threatened what would happen to Tyrion if he was wrong again. He was pleading for her to adhere to the bells if they ring. You don't think that her listening to him be wrong one more time, causing her to lose another child, and again falling to another Cersei trick doesn't add any significance to that episode?
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:38 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:38 am to RollTide1987
quote:
But that doesn't change the fact that season eight is objectively bad by Game of Thrones standards. The writing has effectively killed this show.
An argument can be made that fans simply didn’t like what was written, rather than how it was written
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:40 am to SlowFlowPro
When she took off on the dragon after the bells rang, I though she was going to burn Cersei out of the Red Keep. I'm still confused on why she killed everyone possible in King's Landing. She won't just be feared now, people will be actively trying to kill her.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:40 am to OceanMan
Oh come on, there was at least some lazy and rushed writing going on. They decided to make it 13 episodes so it was bound to happen.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:41 am to TigerSprings
quote:
I like the Dany going mad angle and how Jon will deal with it. Seems like it would take more than 1 more episode to work it out though.
Pretty much this. It needed to be fleshed out and then dealt with properly.
Instead, we get one episode of "crazy queen" followed by one episode of "virtuous hero kills crazy queen" (maybe) and then series done.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:41 am to OceanMan
quote:
An argument can be made that fans simply didn’t like what was written, rather than how it was written
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:44 am to RB10
quote:Using the murder of a few (maybe Cersei aside) to set an example and using the murder many to set an set an example is merely a difference of scale.
Taking down the red keep is setting an example. Publicly executing Cersei and the Lannister generals is setting an example.
Killing everyone is, again, genocide.
Besides, if she was trying to instill a new level of fear in the ENTIRE REALM, after seeing that Cersei didn't intill enough fear, than outdoing what Cersei did to instill fear (blow up the Sept) would require a lot of carnage.
And besides the "one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic" has some unfortunate truth to it for those in power. The filmmakers purposely gave it to us from the perspective of conquered, and we saw them as individuals and their horror and tragedy. But from the conqueror's perspective, they're just collateral statistics and a means to an end.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:50 am
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