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re: Game of Thrones S8E5 "The Bells" is officially the worst reviewed GOT episode yet
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:38 am to CajunTiger_225
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:38 am to CajunTiger_225
quote:
Since episode 1 of this season Dany has been turning.
In episode 2 she was trying to reconcile with Sansa. In episode 3 she was hell bent on saving her Dothraki from the WW even though the plan was to use them as cannon fodder.
We went from this to her burning millions of people alive "just because" in less than 2 episodes.
1
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:39 am to RB10
quote:
If him doing exactly what he tells her he's going to do is treason so is her demanding that the rightful heir not take his birthri
He doesnt want it
you're argument is based on if he actually wanted to be king or was already king. quote:
You people are trying to justify her madness. The whole point is that it's not justifiable. It's the reaction of a lunatic when they don't get their wish.
I am not sure why everyone else is trying to justify her actions or say that it wasnt doing of a lunatic, but I am just saying that it is not surprising. I think enough things happened that it made it go up in the air whether she was going to stay sane or turn to madness.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:39 am to CajunTiger_225
quote:
Yes they are? Have you read these threads?
Who? I've seen plenty arguing that the way they did it was not well done. Who has argued that her going mad did not make sense for her character?
quote:
And yet few people have offered any ideas on what could have been done to make it better.
There is literally an option on the last page
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 10:41 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:40 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Well he was fully claiming for her to be his queen and that he didnt want to rule. So his queen essentially commands him not to tell anybody and he immediately goes and tells somebody.
I think that event was to show how much more Jon is a Stark than a Targaryen. He is noble to a fault like Ned was.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:41 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
He doesnt want it you're argument is based on if he actually wanted to be king or was already king.
I'm making a point that calling what Jon did treason is, well, stupid. Again, what Varys did was treason, he was trying to usurp the queen. What Ned Stark did was treason because he was trying to usurp the king.
What Jon did is not treason in any way, shape or form.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:43 am to RB10
quote:
Is it treason for the rightful heir to tell people he's the rightful heir or for someone with a lesser claim to demand he ignore his birthright?
Treason is a tricky thing particularly in a monarchy. Monarchy bases itself on divine/hereditary rule. If you win then it’s a justified rebellion. If you lose then it’s treason. If you spread info to at minimum break up the kingdom if not completely destroy the claim of the person you claim to serve then it seems pretty clear that you have betrayed the ruler and committed treason. Doesn’t matter if it’s true false whatever
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:45 am to MF Doom
quote:
My main problem with Jaime was how unimportant he was to the endgame. He could've died last season and the main plot wouldn't change at all.
Jamie is one of the most important characters of the series. His actions helped create and make Bran the way he is.
Without Bran, where would they be?
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 10:50 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:45 am to RB10
quote:
I'm making a point that calling what Jon did treason is, well, stupid. Again, what Varys did was treason, he was trying to usurp the queen. What Ned Stark did was treason because he was trying to usurp the king.
What Jon did is not treason in any way, shape or form.
I never said it was treason. It was betrayal. There can be difference. Betrayal of trust from the person she loved.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:47 am to RB10
quote:So 2 episodes before we saw how she can’t maintain the rational plan and gives into her emotional impulses in the moment?
In episode 3 she was hell bent on saving her Dothraki from the WW even though the plan was to use them as cannon fodder.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:47 am to Adam Banks
quote:
If you spread info to at minimum break up the kingdom if not completely destroy the claim of the person you claim to serve then it seems pretty clear that you have betrayed the ruler and committed treason. Doesn’t matter if it’s true false whatever
Jon didn't spread information to usurp the queen. So, he didn't commit treason.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:48 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
So 2 episodes before we saw how she can’t maintain the rational plan and gives into her emotional impulses in the moment?
To save people. This doesn't translate into slaughtering millions.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:49 am to RB10
He told the at minimum second highest person in the north sansa who already vehemently dislikes Dany that Dany is not the rightful ruler. How is that not breaking up the kingdom?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:50 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
I never said it was treason.
That post was directed to someone who said it was treason. Seems like you're a bit lost.
quote:
It was betrayal
It wasn't, but we've already been through this.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:51 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Without Bran, where would they be?
They might be better off without him. Even though Sam already knew Rhaegar had his marriage annulled, it was Bran that let him know Jon was their son and legitimate heir. If it weren’t for him, Sam wouldn’t have told Jon and maybe Dany wouldn’t have snapped.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:51 am to Adam Banks
quote:
He told the at minimum second highest person in the north sansa who already vehemently dislikes Dany that Dany is not the rightful ruler. How is that not breaking up the kingdom?
He told his sister that she's not actually his sister. The only people guilty of treason in this instance are Sansa and Varys.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:51 am to RB10
quote:
Jon didn't spread information to usurp the queen
dude He wasnt trying to but it was information that could. How could you not see that. Varys getting the information to usurp her led directly back to Jon.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:52 am to RB10
quote:And that’s true in our democratic republic with protected freedoms with checks and balances on power. In a monarchy, and in this case more like a dictatorial conquering, where absolute power is vested in the conquerer who thought she was entitled to that power by birthright, treason is whatever she wants it to be, especially when it’s the truest threat to her power.
Jon didn't spread information to usurp the queen. So, he didn't commit treason.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:52 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Betrayal of trust from the person she loved.
It wasnt a betrayal of trust either. He stated that he wished to tell them who he was. She asked him not to. He never agreed. He never lied.
He may have put his wishes above hers but he didnt betray her.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:53 am to RB10
quote:If telling one’s ex-fiancée that his would have been brother-in-law wouldn’t have been his brother-in-law is treason, then why wouldn’t telling your your sister that your not his brother be treason as well?
He told his sister that she's not actually his sister. The only people guilty of treason in this instance are Sansa and Varys.
To me it really just shows the true problem: it’s not Dany or Cersei; it’s what they believe they are entitled to—absolute power.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 10:56 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:54 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
treason is whatever she wants it to be
All that really matters. Just like it not being betrayal, but she believed it was.
Also, she clearly didn't see it as treason or she would have burned Jon right next to Varys, no?
You guys are trying really hard to make her out to me a misunderstood victim. She's not.
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