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re: Game of Thrones S8E5 "The Bells" is officially the worst reviewed GOT episode yet
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:56 am to RB10
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:56 am to RB10
quote:I don’t think she is, but she definitely has always had the victim-mentality, a natural extension of her entitled mentality.
You guys are trying really hard to make her out to me a misunderstood victim. She's not.
1
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:58 am to RollTide1987
Who's really white knighting?
People are pretty consistent here on what's eh, what sucks and what's good to great about this season.
It hasn't been Dornish nonsense plotline bad.
People are pretty consistent here on what's eh, what sucks and what's good to great about this season.
It hasn't been Dornish nonsense plotline bad.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 10:59 am to RB10
quote:
You guys are trying really hard to make her out to me a misunderstood victim. She's not.
Who is making her out to be a victim?
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:00 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
I don’t think she is, but she definitely has always had the victim-mentality, a natural extension of her entitled mentality.
Hence the reason she sees betrayal where there is none. She sees betrayal in something that's just the honorable thing to do.
Like I said before, it was all just a mechanism for the writers to speed up her descent into madness rather than flesh it out properly. People are taking this shortcut and trying to apply rational thought to it. There is no rational thought to it.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:00 am to ZappBrannigan
quote:
It hasn't been Dornish nonsense plotline bad
If the dornish plotline happened this season D&D pumpers would tell us how it's actually really good and the sand snakes are excellent characters that are just misunderstood
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:00 am to OMLandshark
The script changed when Dany came to Westeros.
But she has never had issue with group punishment (crucified 163 masters without asking who were the ones to crucify the children outside Meereen), roasted a master without really knowing if he was related to the Sons of the Harpy.
She had an opportunity to escape Vaes Dothraki but chose a plan to kill all the Khals.
At any point has she met any kind of resistance with anything but fire and blood?
In the past all the resistance was “bad guys”
And that was when she was in a much better mental state.
In Essos the slaves loved her and rose up and threw out the Wise Masters.
In Westeros she isn’t getting that love while doing everything she can to avoid killing the little folk. And what is she getting in return?
Lost 2 dragons.
Lost 2 of her best friends.
Losing huge chunks of her army.
So to say she is going to view the people of Kings Landing the same as the slaves in Essos when they’re acting completely different doesn’t make sense.
Combine that with her deteriorating mental state, and you get what you saw.
But she has never had issue with group punishment (crucified 163 masters without asking who were the ones to crucify the children outside Meereen), roasted a master without really knowing if he was related to the Sons of the Harpy.
She had an opportunity to escape Vaes Dothraki but chose a plan to kill all the Khals.
At any point has she met any kind of resistance with anything but fire and blood?
In the past all the resistance was “bad guys”
And that was when she was in a much better mental state.
In Essos the slaves loved her and rose up and threw out the Wise Masters.
In Westeros she isn’t getting that love while doing everything she can to avoid killing the little folk. And what is she getting in return?
Lost 2 dragons.
Lost 2 of her best friends.
Losing huge chunks of her army.
So to say she is going to view the people of Kings Landing the same as the slaves in Essos when they’re acting completely different doesn’t make sense.
Combine that with her deteriorating mental state, and you get what you saw.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:03 am to MF Doom
My favorite part of this is when GRRM also fails to weave together his millions of pieces in to some coherent whole.
GRRM’s strengths
1. Character development
2. World building
3. Dialogue
Weaknesses
1. Overacting cohesive plots.
Part of what we love about the show and booksnis part of the problem: realism.
Reality doesn’t have a tidy plot line.
GRRM’s strengths
1. Character development
2. World building
3. Dialogue
Weaknesses
1. Overacting cohesive plots.
Part of what we love about the show and booksnis part of the problem: realism.
Reality doesn’t have a tidy plot line.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:04 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:04 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Who? I've seen plenty arguing that the way they did it was not well done. Who has argued that her going mad did not make sense for her character
I didnt say there wasnt. But you said nobody is arguing whether it made sense or not when a good chunk of these threads after the episode are doing exactly that
quote:
There is literally an option on the last page
Yeah and it added nothing to what we were already given. It was redundant.
My gripe isnt really with the people who want to rewrite what they watched. That's just the state of film we're in. Everybody thinks something could have done better, everybody always thinks theres better ideas.
My gripe is trying to validate something as poor by omitting significance of past events or things we've seen in prior episodes.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:04 am to RB10
quote:And this is where I disagree, this is who she is and who she has always been and her “decent into madness” (which I don’t think is madness), is more realistic than for an entitled, power-hungry barely-adult person who just went through the very real horrors of war to become anything near benevolence.
Like I said before, it was all just a mechanism for the writers to speed up her descent into madness rather than flesh it out properly.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:06 am to SammyTiger
4. Thorough description of people eating food
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:08 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
And this is where I disagree, this is who she is and who she has always been and her “decent into madness” (which I don’t think is madness), is more realistic than for an entitled, power-hungry barely-adult person who just went through the very real horrors of war to become anything near benevolence.
At no point in the previous 7.5 seasons did we ever get the impression that she would slaughter millions just to do it.
Slaughter Cersei and the Lannister army? Sure. Raze the red keep if necessary? Sure. Accumulate a moderate amount of collateral damage to achieve her goal? Sure.
Burn millions of people unnecessarily just because? Absolutely not.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:12 am to RB10
quote:
At no point in the previous 7.5 seasons did we ever get the impression that she would slaughter millions just to do it
Multiple times. It's literally the first thing Tyrion had to advise her against when they met.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:12 am to RB10
quote:
At no point in the previous 7.5 seasons did we ever get the impression that she would slaughter millions just to do it.
One of them will bring up quotes in which she says she’ll burn everyone or something. Point is, saying something and doing it are two different things.
I remember back in Meereen she locked up her dragons (even though she could’ve used them for fear tactics with the amount of unrest going on) because one of them roasted a farmer’s little girl.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:12 am to CajunTiger_225
quote:
Yeah and it added nothing to what we were already given. It was redundant.
Who said it added something? Who said anyone had to add more to the story? The argument is to do it better. That options would have been better. How are you still not getting this?
quote:
I didnt say there wasnt. But you said nobody is arguing whether it made sense or not when a good chunk of these threads after the episode are doing exactly that
Which ones? I haven't seen that argument if it has been made. Again, i've seen plenty arguing it was not well done. Please point out one arguing it didn't make sense for her to go mad as part of her character. I'd be interested in reading the opinion.
quote:
My gripe is trying to validate something as poor by omitting significance of past events or things we've seen in prior episodes.
I've yet to do that. I've stated this three pages ago:
quote:
Yes over the course of all 8 seasons, she had definite signs of a tyrannical psycho come out. We all knew it was hidden in her. The problem with this season she went from having those flare ups to full on genocidal maniac in an episode and a half, if that.
I've recognized her going mad makes sense. I've acknowledged the signs have been there and she has moved closer to it throughout the series. I've expressed criticism of how they finally made the snap happen and shown a way that would have been more powerful and made more sense in the landscape of what already was happening in the show. I'm not really sure what else you are upset about
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:16 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:13 am to CajunTiger_225
quote:
Multiple times. It's literally the first thing Tyrion had to advise her against when they met.
Yeah, this isn't true at all. He advised her against slaughtering rebels.
Quite different than going into a city and just killing everyone.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:13 am to SammyTiger
quote:Exactly. And later on when she ambushed the Army of the Lannisters and its allies, when she fried Dickon, she wasn’t doing that to a “bad guy,” despite actually having counsel to not do it, despite having time to think about it, and despite not having really lost anything but some tactical advantages.
In the past all the resistance was “bad guys” And that was when she was in a much better mental state.
Besides, anyone who serves as the absolute judge, jury, and executioner of “bad guys,” even if they are merely associated with the bad guys or who merely just oppose her, then the deaths of innocent people, who had a chance to get out of her way, to serve her cause is not a far leap at all—it’s what has actually happened throughout history.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:15 am to RB10
quote:He had to advise her to not “reduce the city to dirt,” which is why he referenced her father wanting to burn KL and why he said it’s “not entirely different.”
Yeah, this isn't true at all. He advised her against slaughtering rebels.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:16 am
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:16 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
Exactly. And later on when she ambushed the Army of the Lannisters and its allies, when she fried Dickon, she wasn’t doing that to a “bad guy,” despite actually having counsel to not do it, despite having time to think about it, and despite not having really lost anything but some tactical advantages.
None of this comes close to going into a city of millions, which already had the defending forces surrender and killing everyone indiscriminately. Not to mention it was premeditated. She didn't care if they surrendered or not, she was killing everyone.
They're not even remotely the same thing.
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:17 am to RB10
quote:
At no point in the previous 7.5 seasons did we ever get the impression that she would slaughter millions just to do it.
Slaughter Cersei and the Lannister army? Sure. Raze the red keep if necessary? Sure. Accumulate a moderate amount of collateral damage to achieve her goal? Sure.
Burn millions of people unnecessarily just because? Absolutely not.
LINK
Posted on 5/14/19 at 11:18 am to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
Green Chili Tiger
Look up.
ETA: Killing two opposing leaders to make a point is not equatable to destroying an entire city when it's defenses had already been destroyed.
ETAA: The point is there was at least a modicum of rationale behind most of the previous "events". There is absolutely no rationale for what was done in episode 5. It was just unhinged slaughter for the sake of unhinged slaughter.
This post was edited on 5/14/19 at 11:24 am
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