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re: Game of Thrones S7 E7 "The Dragon and the Wolf" MAESTERS THREAD NO SPOILERS

Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:24 am to
Posted by Putty
Member since Oct 2003
25911 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:24 am to
Pretty good season finale. Loved the Littlefinger scene. Only thing that would have made it better is if Sansa had done it per Ned's conviction that the man who passes the sentence must swing the sword.

Has it been discussed yet that the Night King and Ice Dragon scene at the wall had the special effects quality of a 1980's japanese monster movie?

Hypertechnical nerd question: Ice Drag already has holes in his wings. Maybe a leaving drag could heal that, but he cant. Shouldnt they be able to riddle him with holes to the point he cant fly?
Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:26 am to
quote:

A few takeaways - Varys just kinda stands around in the background, hands in sleeves. LF just kinda leered at Sansa all season, miscalculating (totally out of character). Wouldn't it have been nice to have LF and Varys meet again and have LF (at least someone other than just Cersei) still hanging around at the end, plotting, with the dead on their heels?

Yeah. Some of these characters just don't quite fit in with the new "an army of undead monsters and a supervillain are coming to kill us all" paradigm.

They pretty much cut out a large portion of Vary's character when they decided not to use the Faegon storyline. Can't fault them for ditching that but without it Varys just doesn't have much to do. He is kind of duplicative of Tyrion right now. Heck, he's not even useful for providing info any more which should be his specialty.

I don't really have a problem with the resolution of Littlefinger's character run. At least with the idea behind it. I just get a nagging sensation that that execution was not quite there to make the whole Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger storyline really good.

Cersei has really outlived her purpose on the show IMHO. I think that the showrunners are just so impressed with Lena Headey as an actress that they can't bring themselves to close her arc. And she is a very good actress. But I've been kind of tired of her storyline all season.
Posted by frankenfish
Crofton, MD
Member since Feb 2008
865 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:29 am to
Next day thoughts:

I think next season we’re going to see Cersei go “mad” so I wouldn’t be surprised to have any/all of these things combine to drive her over the edge next season:
• She is pregnant but the baby will die. Now she’ll have no heir to plan for and go off the deep end. I could see the show beating us over the head Hodor-style with the prophesy and tie in the next point:
• Jamie- the loss of her lover/best friend/life-long companion, especially with the loss of the fetus, will drive her further into madness. This would allow him to come back and fulfill his Valonqar destiny.
• Euron could betray her. I know the plan was for him to go get the golden company, but after him seeing the dragons and the wight and knowing he’s in it for himself there are several avenues he can take that will deny her the Golden Company.

Some thoughts on the last episode that struck me:
• When Bronn led Pod out of the dragon dome I thought something was about to go down. That increased the stress level greatly.
• Which made this stick out as incongruent even more- I didn’t like that the Wight got within 2 feet of Cersei and the chain was the only thing that kept it from attacking her. We have a situation where all parties hate and don’t trust each other and Cersei’s security detail, especially the Mountain, just allows the Hound to open a box in front of her and this thing to charge her? I would have liked it if the Mountain jumped in front and cut the Wight in half; then the plot with the upper body/lower body/hand could have played out as it did. Just seemed implausible to me and knowing how paranoid Cersei is she’d not accuse the others of an attempt on her life with the way this played out.
• I’m glad Jamie is leaving Cersei and being honorable to help fight for the living but it’s unclear to me what he has to offer. In the books and in this series we see that he’s not a credible/respected figure. Will Cersei allow him to bring any significant number of troops North (that seems unlikely to me as it would undermine her power). So while I like his redemptive arc I don’t see that his defection really brings much to the larger war. Would Dany allow him into her inner circle if Tyrion and Brianne vouch for him? Jamie did kill her father after all. Again, his riding north is good drama but I’m not sure what good one dude without his sword does to defeat the army of the dead.
• I guess the Night King wants the living to know exactly what he’s doing? The wall is hundreds of miles long and sparsely defended but he chooses to breach it at Eastwatch? Wouldn’t a military strategist breach it as close to Winterfell as possible and try to avoid detection?
Posted by ladyluckUGA
Member since Feb 2014
6432 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:30 am to
I loved Sam's reaction when he told him he was the 3 eyed raven. he played it perfectly

and not sure if it was a script error or if it was written so people would remember, but after telling people he's not Bran anymore all season he's the 3ER, he referred to Lyanna as "my Aunt" in that conversation.
Posted by Sasquatch Smash
Member since Nov 2007
25919 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:32 am to
quote:

Anyone else think it was weird that Sam wasnt paying attention and could give two shits when Gilly was finding out about Jons parents' wedding, and then when Bran mentioned it he spouts up and starts rattling off the details. WTF??


He did say he translated/transcribed the diary. So, I'm thinking he originally glossed over the information during his Maester-school busy work but knew it all the same. He didn't strike that "Eureka!" moment until Bran said that Jon's Stark parentage was Lyanna and not Ned.

However, you'd figure Sam would have realized the implications of an annulment leading to a legit marriage between Rhaegar and Lyanna in the context of one of the main causes of Robert's Rebellion, which alone would be a big deal.
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:33 am to
quote:

So the theory is that Euron will kill Jon Snow in the final season. Which would be probably highly unsatisfying, but here's the evidence


The show would be over for me if that happens. I wouldn't read another book, if fatass gets another one out before his inevitable massive heart attack that kills him. And I wouldn't watch another episode. I would be done with the series.

That would be the biggest, most cheap, stupid arse death in the series.
Posted by DivotBreath
On the course
Member since Oct 2007
3725 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:34 am to
quote:

Cersei not drinking any wine when Tyrion poured it


I highly doubt the 'no drinking while you're pregnant' rules applied back then . . . especially when the 'no fricking your brother' rule didn't apply to Cersi. It is a big stretch to argue this point as confirmation she is pregnant.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:39 am to
quote:

But he still basically fobbed off Gilly's finding as his own.


He specifically said it was in scrolls he had to make copies of. Gilly might have been reading the done pile, in fact that would make the most sense from a workflow point of view.

Between the lack of source material and the lack of episodes they are really cutting corners and have admitted to focusing on hitting the emotional notes more than the minutia. I'm sure the Gilly reveal episode they wanted that info to drop for the fans but they clearly didn't want Sam to make a big deal about it, so a Gilly throw away makes more sense than Sam reading it and pointing out to her how interesting it is.
This post was edited on 8/28/17 at 8:41 am
Posted by Bamatab
Member since Jan 2013
16257 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:39 am to
quote:

This would allow him to come back and fulfill his Valonqar destiny.

There was no valonqar prophecy on the show. Maggy the Frog's prophecy on the show only dealt with her children's death, and a younger more beautiful woman taking everything from her. But her death by the valongar was never mentioned by Maggy.
Posted by VinegarStrokes
Georgia
Member since Oct 2015
14184 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:42 am to
quote:

It's going to be a long wait for the last season. I'm worried that Dany and Jon are both going to die, and the whole story is being told to their child by Sam Tarly.


Maybe GRRM pulls a Stan Lee and has a cameo in the series finale as old man Sam...






Or maybe Jon Snow survives and Martin has a cameo as old man Aegon...

Posted by Crow Pie
Neuro ICU - Tulane Med Center
Member since Feb 2010
27776 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:43 am to
quote:

So the Others are just going to win right? I mean they can take out dragons whenever they want and have an endless supply of people to use
Not so fast my friend. Remember last episode when they took out one W-Walker and all the wights tagged to him dropped.......
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
134659 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:44 am to
quote:

Aegon Targaryen, the Motherfricker of Dragons!!!



From Jon "yuh know nothing" snow
To Aegon "Gettin' in Auntie's Panties" Targaryen.
Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:55 am to
quote:

frankenfish

Great discussion points. My take on a couple of them:

quote:

Which made this stick out as incongruent even more- I didn’t like that the Wight got within 2 feet of Cersei and the chain was the only thing that kept it from attacking her. We have a situation where all parties hate and don’t trust each other and Cersei’s security detail, especially the Mountain, just allows the Hound to open a box in front of her and this thing to charge her? I would have liked it if the Mountain jumped in front and cut the Wight in half; then the plot with the upper body/lower body/hand could have played out as it did

I was wondering why the Mountain didn't move to intervene myself. What would have been really great (for me anyway) was if the Mountain had cut the wight in half like you said but momentum carried the upper half to continue onto Cersei. I'm don't remember what part of it was chained though.

quote:

I’m glad Jamie is leaving Cersei and being honorable to help fight for the living but it’s unclear to me what he has to offer. In the books and in this series we see that he’s not a credible/respected figure

He may be the most capable battle commander they have. In the books at least he's really matured as a leader. I know he was swamped at Dothraki/Dragon battle and his scouting wasn't very good. But he was really just overwhelmed with superior forces. And as he says, he does learn eventually.

I also think that his presence could help with the organization of those soldiers who have already bent the knee to Danny after that battle. They can particularly use skilled archers in the battle for the dawn. And some of Cersei's forces may well follow him. If I was a Lannister bannerman, I'd probably follow Jamie's lead over Cersei's.

And of course he carries one of the very few Valyrian steel weapons around.
Posted by SoDakHawk
South Dakota
Member since Jun 2014
10652 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 8:56 am to
All I can say is that Cersei (Lena Headey) was killing it last night. The most compelling and interesting scenes are with her included. The Cersei/Tyrion and Cersei/Jaime scenes we're great.

All you need to know about Cersei's selfishness was when Jon said the million that lived in KL would end up a wight and she replied that it would be an improvement over their current lives. That statement and blowing up the Sept really tell you she cares for nobody but herself.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:00 am to
quote:

Wouldn’t a military strategist breach it as close to Winterfell as possible and try to avoid detection?


When you're an adult attacking the pillow fort of children, does it really matter if you attack strategically or not? From the NKs point of view avoiding detection = less troops to add to the army.
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22971 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:04 am to
Why did they use an actor that looks just like Viserys to play Rhaegar in the wedding scene? That shite threw me for a loop.
Posted by texastiger38
Member since Sep 2007
28790 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:06 am to
quote:

Not so fast my friend. Remember last episode when they took out one W-Walker and all the wights tagged to him dropped.......


I get that, but, who's going to kill the Night's King? He appears to be the most powerful person ever.
Posted by frankenfish
Crofton, MD
Member since Feb 2008
865 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:08 am to
Methuselah- great point on Jamie. I was projecting a bit and just saw him alone, covering his golden hand and wondering if Dany would allow him into her inner circle. I agree the writers could allow it and his strengths, as you describe, could help the living.

And I think he's happiest in the field fighting and his doing that I think will crystallize his coming around to determining that Cercei needs to die. I think it'll be good TV, if for no other reason they can't really do anything else with him...
Posted by rt3
now in the piney woods of Pineville
Member since Apr 2011
147160 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:11 am to
quote:

I'm don't remember what part of it was chained though.

pretty sure he was chained around the neck
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/28/17 at 9:12 am to
quote:

I think he's happiest in the field fighting and his doing that I think will crystallize his coming around to determining that Cercei needs to die


I can't see any way Jamie kills his unborn child. Cersei either needs to lose the baby or tell him it's not his before Jamie would kill her.
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