re: Andruw Jones: Hall of Famer?

that was said in response to YOUR statement, NOT in defense of why AJ should be in the HOF

No

When I think of Andruw Jones' career and numbers I think it would be a travesty to elect him to the Hall of Fame. I look at his impact on the game, and more importantly the success of his team, as being much less significant than a guy like Bert Campaneris. Campaneris' best years coincided with the A's five straight division championships and three World Series victories. He was better than most of his positional peers, and he excelled statistically in some catagories. Compare Campaneris statistically to Phil Rizzuto or Pee Wee Reese. If Campaneris' A's teams played in New York, I can guaratee he would be in the Hall of Fame.

I am on the fence here....

Andruw was one of my favorite players in his prime.

A great defensive player with 30 homers and 100 RBIs for about 10 years. Over 400 Homers over his career.

That's kind of the definition of Hall of Fame.

But I'm not sure he gets in.

Krispy creme hof perhaps.

Not to make this about Maz, but…

He hit 260/299/367 in one of the most defensively oriented eras in history. Those aren’t good numbers, even with an adjustment, but he did hit 138 homers. He also is #1 in Zone Runs for a 2nd basemen, and he’s widely regarded as the best double play pivot ever (and numbers back it up). His only competition on the pivot is Willie Randolph and his only competition for fielding is Frank White. And frankly, neither of those guys hit much better than Maz. And Maz was better all around than either of them in the field.

Maz also hit 323/364/581 career in the postseason. He won two World Series rings, and the one he won in 1960 was largely due to his heroics. He won the Series with his home run, and he was probably the Pirates best player all season long (yes, even over Clemente once you value defense, and Clemente was no slouch in the field to say the least). He picked a good year to hit 11 homers.

He also had a short peak, but he made seven All-Star Games (technically 10, but let’s not talk about the two games things – but he made them both each year they did it), back when making the AS Game actually meant something.

He was widely considered the best 2B in the game, over Nellie Fox, and he won a Player of the Year Award in 1960 (though not the MVP). I think he needs his 1960 heroics and that homer to get in, but it props up a borderline resume. Flags fly forever. Defense matters more at second than anywhere except short and catcher, and he’s the best defensive player ever with decent hitting stats, a superb 1960 season, and an awesome postseason resume. That’s enough to get in the Veteran’s backdoor.

When Jones lifts his game in the postseason and hits one of the greatest hits in history, then he'll get the bonus points, too.

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And both of those guys made highlight plays because they were often out of position when the ball was hit and they HAD to make those plays.

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I say no to the hall of fame but you can't doubt his defensive prowess. He had an insane ability to get a great jump on the ball, turn his back to the ball, run to the spot he thought the ball would come down, turn around, and be waiting on it. He made difficult plays look routine and would run down almost everything else. Greg Maddux use to say that Andruw would save 2-3 runs every single game. He played really shallow to take away some otherwise routine hits with full confidence he could get to anything over his head, and more often than not, he did. Everything about your opinion is completely ignorant.

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If he stayed in shape

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This is a key point.

He was lazy and showed no dedication to improve either his condition or his game.

Not a HoF'er in my mind for that reason alone.

Babe may have been out of shape, drunk, womanizer, but he was dedicated to be the best in the game at least

Heck to the no.