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Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:19 am to Pilot Tiger
Someone of note on MLB Network just recently was saying how Andruw had the best range they had ever seen in their life. Wish I could remember now.
And while 500 may not be an automatic, it's such an exclusive club.. I was looking at Gary Sheffield thinking maybe he won't get in even tho he had a much higher batting avg.. but then he was not the complete player like Andruw.. and he's another guy more directly linked to the steroids.
There is a difference in being a good-great defensive player and being among one of the most elite ever. You see it with your eyes, not just with the gold gloves to back it up. He is a guy known for his highlights and then he has this incredible power numbers as well? Ozzie Smith a career what .260 hitter? Not far off from Jones.. and he doesn't even break 100 homers.. granted he stole a ton and SS is a different position of value.. but like Jones.. Smith's defense comes to mind first and foremost. It's elite. Andruw's is elite. I find it highly disgusting that Derek Jeter's defensive awards was brought into the discussion of Andruw Jones. No one thinks of Jeter's D when they think of him.. You think of hits, hits, hits.
And while 500 may not be an automatic, it's such an exclusive club.. I was looking at Gary Sheffield thinking maybe he won't get in even tho he had a much higher batting avg.. but then he was not the complete player like Andruw.. and he's another guy more directly linked to the steroids.
There is a difference in being a good-great defensive player and being among one of the most elite ever. You see it with your eyes, not just with the gold gloves to back it up. He is a guy known for his highlights and then he has this incredible power numbers as well? Ozzie Smith a career what .260 hitter? Not far off from Jones.. and he doesn't even break 100 homers.. granted he stole a ton and SS is a different position of value.. but like Jones.. Smith's defense comes to mind first and foremost. It's elite. Andruw's is elite. I find it highly disgusting that Derek Jeter's defensive awards was brought into the discussion of Andruw Jones. No one thinks of Jeter's D when they think of him.. You think of hits, hits, hits.
This post was edited on 7/9/12 at 8:24 am
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:21 am to Hoyt
No, why does this thread have 4 pgs?
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:21 am to Sophandros
Are you saying Jones made highlight plays because ihe was out out of position? If so, that's laughably stupid. He may have gotten the best jump off the bat of any outfielder of all time.
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:26 am to Hot Carl
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jones admitted to making catches look harder than what they actually were. By either charging/breaking on ball late to make the diving/jumping catch.
Some athletes it comes so effortlessly that they do this, as mentioned earlier Edmonds admitted to doing it a few years ago I believe. So wouldn't surprise me to know Jones or other OF's do same thing on occasion
Some athletes it comes so effortlessly that they do this, as mentioned earlier Edmonds admitted to doing it a few years ago I believe. So wouldn't surprise me to know Jones or other OF's do same thing on occasion
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:28 am to tduecen
quote:but have you seen him play?
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jones admitted to making catches look harder than what they actually were. By either charging/breaking on ball late to make the diving/jumping catch.
He made gappers look like cans of corn the way he ran to the exact spot and just lazily let the ball land in his glove
I can't recall a time I saw him make an unnecessary dive like edmonds and I've seen his entire career play out
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:29 am to tduecen
Are you fricking serious? Jones did the exact opposite of that. He sprinted to where the ball was gonna be and camped out under it.
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:32 am to Hot Carl
Yeah that was a horrific argument IMO. Andruw took away hits with his range.. Why should it matter where he was lined up.. He prevented a ton of singles but could go get the gappers. Andruw would catch fly balls with his eyes closed. He did make it look so routine.
I am a huge homer so I am going to defend him.. I admit he's not there now and even if he ever does get there it will be way down the line.. but at some point his stats have a chance to be worthy enough.
I just think people who first think hell no should truly look at the numbers and keep in mind the man is 35 years old. People assume Andruw is older because he came into the league so young.. He's been around forever. I look forward to seeing if he can have a resurgence (people of today only can remember his 2 really awful seasons but that shouldn't defer from his previous and future achievements) So far this season he has had incredible pop for limited time.
I am a huge homer so I am going to defend him.. I admit he's not there now and even if he ever does get there it will be way down the line.. but at some point his stats have a chance to be worthy enough.
I just think people who first think hell no should truly look at the numbers and keep in mind the man is 35 years old. People assume Andruw is older because he came into the league so young.. He's been around forever. I look forward to seeing if he can have a resurgence (people of today only can remember his 2 really awful seasons but that shouldn't defer from his previous and future achievements) So far this season he has had incredible pop for limited time.
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:34 am to Pilot Tiger
And that's the thing.... He was that great of athlete with instincts that he could make impossible look routine and probably make something he could have routinely look impossible. We would never know because well he made impossible plays look routine so if he dove for a ball or jumped at wall we assumed it was harder than appeared.
Again we will never know and I am not saying he did this, but it wouldn't surprise me either if he admitted to doing this to make a top play or something.
Again we will never know and I am not saying he did this, but it wouldn't surprise me either if he admitted to doing this to make a top play or something.
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:36 am to SouljaBreauxTellEm
Again he hast been a regular since 30 and hasn't had 300 AB since 07..... That hurts him more than him getting fat and lazy near end of tenure with Braves and with Dodgers
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:40 am to DrVinnyBoombatz
He is inarguable on the very short list of greatest fielders ever regardless of position. When ever he combined that big time slugging(inconsistently) he was one of the top 3-5 best players in baseball. To me the Hall of Fame is for the best players.
That sad the chances of him actually getting in are slim to nne
That sad the chances of him actually getting in are slim to nne
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:42 am to SteveLSU35
quote:
No, why does this thread have 4 pgs?
Mostly because of my homerism I am sure.
But this is funny because it reminds me just like 2 years ago on here there was a thread questioning Is Chipper Jones a HOF or 1st Ballot.. and people had very mixed reviews.. but now it's like a foregone conclusion and there is no doubt. I know that's a little different questioning but it was interesting to see the all the people saying no.. and now it's such an automatic thing.
I'm just looking forward to seeing if he rejuvenates his career. Very happy for him. We'll see how the numbers fall. I'd love to see him hit 13+ bombs this second half of the season.
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:45 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:so he wins the popularity contest that is a gold glove award 10 times in a row, but he won't win the popularity contest of getting in the HOF?
That sad the chances of him actually getting in are slim to nne
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:46 am to tduecen
You just don't sound like you actually watched Andruw play.
There are guys of today say a Torri Hunter who do it for a couple of seasons and kind of fade away.. but even they fall off.. and Andruw was so much more elite than them and for such a steady period.. It's just remarkable. He literally did it every single night. He would take so many base hits away.. going full speed and diving.. then he'd go chase down a gapper like a mofo.. and even on the routine plays he'd just close his eyes and catch the ball.
My dad who is barely even a casual baseball fan. He doesn't really keep up with it will tell you Andruw was the best defensive player he's ever seen.. He couldn't tell you any other great defensive players names of that era, but little would he know anything of his power numbers.. Like the fact he has 430+ homers.
There are guys of today say a Torri Hunter who do it for a couple of seasons and kind of fade away.. but even they fall off.. and Andruw was so much more elite than them and for such a steady period.. It's just remarkable. He literally did it every single night. He would take so many base hits away.. going full speed and diving.. then he'd go chase down a gapper like a mofo.. and even on the routine plays he'd just close his eyes and catch the ball.
My dad who is barely even a casual baseball fan. He doesn't really keep up with it will tell you Andruw was the best defensive player he's ever seen.. He couldn't tell you any other great defensive players names of that era, but little would he know anything of his power numbers.. Like the fact he has 430+ homers.
This post was edited on 7/9/12 at 8:52 am
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:47 am to tduecen
quote:this line of thinking is really, really hurting my brain.
We would never know because well he made impossible plays look routine so if he dove for a ball or jumped at wall we assumed it was harder than appeared.
Again we will never know and I am not saying he did this, but it wouldn't surprise me either if he admitted to doing this to make a top play or something.
before i go any further, are you being serious?
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:53 am to SouljaBreauxTellEm
Yeah I never saw Jones play not once.... Of course you are biased on your opinions on him. I don't hate him, I do think he defense is over valued a bit,(not during his peak however) especially near the end of his Braves career.
Of course you are also probably only reading/seeing what you want from my post instead of reading whole thing and comprehending before jumping to conclusions. I never said Jones actually made routine catches look hard, or was even a bad fielder.... However, I did say it wouldn't surprise me if he did do it on the occasion.
He was lazy especially as he got older, he could have gone down as greatest CF all-time had he cared more (of course we could say this about a lot of former and current players) but he got fat and quit really dedicating himself to
Improvement and tried to do it on pure talent. Which worked for him for a long time.
Of course you are also probably only reading/seeing what you want from my post instead of reading whole thing and comprehending before jumping to conclusions. I never said Jones actually made routine catches look hard, or was even a bad fielder.... However, I did say it wouldn't surprise me if he did do it on the occasion.
He was lazy especially as he got older, he could have gone down as greatest CF all-time had he cared more (of course we could say this about a lot of former and current players) but he got fat and quit really dedicating himself to
Improvement and tried to do it on pure talent. Which worked for him for a long time.
This post was edited on 7/9/12 at 8:55 am
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:53 am to TH03
quote:
I think it was the cheeseburgers, not steroids.
Yeah he certainly didn't have the look, but a ton of carribean born players have been linked to steriods. if I had to bet, I would say he did steriods. I'd be hard pressed to name 10 players I would bet had never done or tried steriods.
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:57 am to SouljaBreauxTellEm
quote:
You just don't sound like you actually watched Andruw play.
I have. In person. I live in Atlanta.
Andruw Jones is a great ballplayer, but he's not a HOF player in my opinion.
There's something to be said for standards.
And no, Andruw Jones was NOT considered the best OVERALL CF in the league at any point of his career.
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:58 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
so he wins the popularity contest that is a gold glove award 10 times in a row, but he won't win the popularity contest of getting in the HOF?
What does one have to do with the other?
Posted on 7/9/12 at 8:58 am to Pilot Tiger
How so? You believe he gave 100% effort on every play? That he didn't every once in awhile see a ball and say to himself, "watch me make a diving grab here."
Again..... For others who are trying to spin this that I am saying he did it all the time, I am not. But it would not surprise me if on occasion he dove for a ball he could have easily gotten under, just to make a highlight catch.
Again..... For others who are trying to spin this that I am saying he did it all the time, I am not. But it would not surprise me if on occasion he dove for a ball he could have easily gotten under, just to make a highlight catch.
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