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re: Men’s Basketball Program
Posted on 3/20/24 at 8:16 am to Skillet
Posted on 3/20/24 at 8:16 am to Skillet
Agree with some of that but the fact is he will get 1-2 more years to turn it around. he will need to hit some winners in the portal. This team lacks aboard mentality. Reed and Baker only had ONE rebound between them. That just cannot happen in the SEC. Reed is one of the biggest wastes of 6'10" I have ever seen. Second chance points were the difference last night as it has been in a number of games this year. Hopefully Chest and Collins can help there but he need to get rebounder/rim protector in the portal along with another PG. The fact is he's here for 1-2 more years depending on what he does next year. I do agree this is a pivotal year for him so will see what he does in the portal. That will be a precursor to how next year will go.
1
Posted on 3/20/24 at 8:33 am to Skillet
quote:
When you have to give quality minutes to role players like Baker, Dean, Fountain, Wilkinson & Hannibal,
One could argue the allocation of those minutes and how many to each could be better, at least for me that's one of the issues.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 8:43 am to EPORE
quote:
WW wants to come back, and conversations have been had behind the scenes to possibly facilitate this.
This is 100% TRUE
quote:
f WW get McNeese to the Sweet 16, he will likely be coaching at LSU again next season.
This is 100% not happening. CMM is 100% getting another season
Posted on 3/20/24 at 8:48 am to Tiger Ugly
I don't remember anyone on this board (including me) or in the media expecting LSU to do as well in the SEC regular season as we did this season. That is why I believe McMahon got as much as can be expected from his roster. McMahon underperformed his roster last season IMO.
There are few, if any, of players on our roster that would start on most other SEC teams. Some of our players receiving significant minutes would not get much playing time on most other SEC teams. We need more horses to compete.
But I expect LSU basketball to be in the top half of the SEC year in and year out. It can be done. We have all seen it done in the recent past.
McMahon has room to improve as a coach as people have suggested. I believe that the biggest need for the program is better players at a number of positions. Paint presence, rim protection, rebounding, an above average point guard, etc. are all things that we need.
There are few, if any, of players on our roster that would start on most other SEC teams. Some of our players receiving significant minutes would not get much playing time on most other SEC teams. We need more horses to compete.
But I expect LSU basketball to be in the top half of the SEC year in and year out. It can be done. We have all seen it done in the recent past.
McMahon has room to improve as a coach as people have suggested. I believe that the biggest need for the program is better players at a number of positions. Paint presence, rim protection, rebounding, an above average point guard, etc. are all things that we need.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 8:51 am to MeanStreak
Well at least our assistant coach played at Duke.
I mean, it was Duke Football but at least it was Duke!
I mean, it was Duke Football but at least it was Duke!
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:17 am to mcmaniacinsaneasylum
So what direction do you see the program going in?
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:27 am to OweO
quote:
So what direction do you see the program going in?
With Oklahoma and Texas joining the SEC, there's a good chance that we get pushed further down the pecking order.
As I've said before, the end all be all of McMahon's time here at LSU will be who he gets in that LSU uniform.. With mediocre talent (like we had this year) NIT bid with the off chance of squeaking into the tournament is our ceiling. Bare minimum I can see us making the NIT next year.
With (and only with) a good portal, we are making the tourney. But how good our portal will be remains to be seen.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 9:27 am to mcspufftiger7
If next season is more of the same, and there are no difference maker players on the roster, then year 4 should be his last. Unless he somehow has a monster recruiting class coming in for year 5, which seems unlikely.
Fans won’t show up to see a mediocre team from a coach who may not be able to recruit any better than Trent Johnson.
Fans won’t show up to see a mediocre team from a coach who may not be able to recruit any better than Trent Johnson.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 11:32 am to Skillet
First, this is not a pile-on Baker. I love his sweet outside shot, and he genuinely seems well liked by the other players. But man, it was tough to watch him play, outside of a couple of games where the defense inexplicably left him alone outside and let him get hot. Can't dribble. Can't guard. Hands too soft for rebounding. He legitimately has two options (high shot at the key or iso play with his back to the basket assuming there is no weakside help)
Yes it is a fair criticism to say that Coach MM has a set way of playing offense, and the struggles (especially last year, but at times this year) come from his inability to make changes when needed. But since he IS our coach, no amount of wishful thinking is going to change the fact that it's gonna take until next season to (hopefully) get his "system" players in. And no amount of complaining is going to change that either. Next year is the year, fair to him or not.
I completely agree that Reed's lack of development and Baker's inability to run any kind of ball screen / g&g offense was a killer to this team.
My throat hurts from yelling at the TV every time Baker set a weak pick this season, and then botched the roll (if he even attempted it.)
By the way, whoever said Dean can't play pick and roll--that's not what I've seen, albeit it's a very limited sample size. I can't count the number of times the guards seem to miss Dean flashing open after a pick at the FT line to the side of the lane waiting on a dump pass or lob with nothing to show for it.
Yes it is a fair criticism to say that Coach MM has a set way of playing offense, and the struggles (especially last year, but at times this year) come from his inability to make changes when needed. But since he IS our coach, no amount of wishful thinking is going to change the fact that it's gonna take until next season to (hopefully) get his "system" players in. And no amount of complaining is going to change that either. Next year is the year, fair to him or not.
I completely agree that Reed's lack of development and Baker's inability to run any kind of ball screen / g&g offense was a killer to this team.
My throat hurts from yelling at the TV every time Baker set a weak pick this season, and then botched the roll (if he even attempted it.)
By the way, whoever said Dean can't play pick and roll--that's not what I've seen, albeit it's a very limited sample size. I can't count the number of times the guards seem to miss Dean flashing open after a pick at the FT line to the side of the lane waiting on a dump pass or lob with nothing to show for it.
This post was edited on 3/20/24 at 11:33 am
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:07 pm to Skillet
quote:
then year 4 should be his last
Why wait for year 4? To confirm what what already be known by the end of year 3? That would be doing nothing more than prolonging the inevitable. By the end of year 3 McMahon would have had 3 shots to build a good roster and perform according on the court. If three times aren't the charm, why on earth would you expect the 4th to be?
It's difficult to change long held beliefs and perspectives. Particularly for those who aren't big college basketball fans outside of following LSU for a month or two. But the game has changed DRASTICALLY since the legalization of NIL and the freedom of transfer rules that were enacted in earnest ahead of the 21-22 season. Therefore, you simply can't view the trajectory of a program through a perspective that doesn't exist anymore.
Prior to the freedom of transfer rules when a new coach took over he was mostly stuck in his first year with what was left over on the roster. Guys were reluctant to transfer because they didn't want to sit out a year. And if the new HC had a bad roster, his only means of immediately improving it was to sign HS seniors, JUCO players, or grad transfers. Given most new coaches take over late in the recruiting cycle it was hard to sign great HS players. And the field of JUCO and grad transfers was limited. Thus, it would take a bit of time to revamp a roster.
That is not the case anymore. And it has been shown each season since 2022, multiple times, that a new HC can come in, totally flip the roster, and significantly improve IMMEDIATELY. Now, that doesn't always happen. But it's far from impossible with the right guy. If after next season McMahon has significantly flipped three times and can do no better than barely average (no, 17-14 is not "good"), then why wait another year to see if he can do in year 4 what he hasn't been able to do in years 1, 2, or 3?
On the surface, his hire wasn't "bad". If you compared his career resume with the other 5 SEC coaches that were hired that year it was one of the better resumes. The "bad" would be unnecessarily prolonging the inevitable once it became clear it isn't going to work.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:12 pm to MeanStreak
I'm going to respond and clear up a couple of points people have an issue with.
First being some of the adverseness to me saying MM is not SEC caliber. As I said that starts with recruiting, and he has shown he lacks what it takes to bring in SEC caliber players. That's all you need to know, if you can't bring in the dudes whats the point. You wont compete near the top half of the league. People act like he was just a victim of a bad situation, which had some effect, but we need to expect more of the program.
As I said, I think he's good with getting max effort and production from the guys he has. He has shown some ability to develop before LSU, but most of our players have been somewhat stagnant since he's been here, although not much continuity. Which again brings me back to recruiting, in a world of one and done freshman as difference makers and 1-2 year transfers, development is a way less meaningful skill. You need to be able to attract studs every year to make it.
As for us not being an above average basketball brand you can agree or not. I would say we are top 4-5 in sec history for legacy and accomplishments. We have high profile alums and visibility. MM just doesn't sell the program to players of fans as well as he should inspite of it. I have long thought that shared traits of many good recruiting BB coaches turn many in the fanbase off and it may be what holds us back. Most are loud and outspoken, self promoting, and some what cheesy. Our brand is beyond solid with the right guy heading the program. We need that coach whos willing to get a little dirty.
Again, these are my opinions and I feel pretty strongly about them. I really don't feel like watching another year of near 500 basketball from over achievers. I want a coach that's going to bring in the type of player that will take us to competeing for championships.
First being some of the adverseness to me saying MM is not SEC caliber. As I said that starts with recruiting, and he has shown he lacks what it takes to bring in SEC caliber players. That's all you need to know, if you can't bring in the dudes whats the point. You wont compete near the top half of the league. People act like he was just a victim of a bad situation, which had some effect, but we need to expect more of the program.
As I said, I think he's good with getting max effort and production from the guys he has. He has shown some ability to develop before LSU, but most of our players have been somewhat stagnant since he's been here, although not much continuity. Which again brings me back to recruiting, in a world of one and done freshman as difference makers and 1-2 year transfers, development is a way less meaningful skill. You need to be able to attract studs every year to make it.
As for us not being an above average basketball brand you can agree or not. I would say we are top 4-5 in sec history for legacy and accomplishments. We have high profile alums and visibility. MM just doesn't sell the program to players of fans as well as he should inspite of it. I have long thought that shared traits of many good recruiting BB coaches turn many in the fanbase off and it may be what holds us back. Most are loud and outspoken, self promoting, and some what cheesy. Our brand is beyond solid with the right guy heading the program. We need that coach whos willing to get a little dirty.
Again, these are my opinions and I feel pretty strongly about them. I really don't feel like watching another year of near 500 basketball from over achievers. I want a coach that's going to bring in the type of player that will take us to competeing for championships.
This post was edited on 3/20/24 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:12 pm to Alt26
quote:
why wait another year to see if he can do in year 4 what he hasn't been able to do in years 1, 2, or 3?
Bruce Pearl at Auburn
Y1: 15-20 (4-14)
Y2: 11-20 (5-13)
Y3: 18-14 (7-12)
Y4: 26-8 (13-5) NCAA R2
Y5: 30-10 (11-7) SECT Champ + Final Four
This post was edited on 3/20/24 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:17 pm to airlarry
quote:
By the way, whoever said Dean can't play pick and roll--that's not what I've seen, albeit it's a very limited sample size. I can't count the number of times the guards seem to miss Dean flashing open after a pick at the FT line to the side of the lane waiting on a dump pass or lob with nothing to show for it.
No one (barring a select few) on his board watches tape on our players. No one (barring a select few) on this board watch other games than LSU.
Look at his GW highlights- it's literally ALL PICK AND ROLL. But yet McMahon wants to play Baker in a ball screen offense when Dean is the FAR BETTER roll threat? It literally makes ZERO frickING SENSE.
Plus, people saying Dean can't shoot (when he can) and downvoting me for saying he was a 6'7'' wing/guard in HS and had a growth spurt in college. Downvoting verifiable facts that can be proven with minimal effort.
But they don't care, and they don't understand basketball. But it's okay though because we have football and baseball, right guys?
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:21 pm to tigerbait2010
quote:
I’d be much more encouraged had we signed a top 15 class and a couple of transfers, but now we’re going to have to somehow sign 7 damn good transfers that don’t all have Louisiana ties (what all of McMahon’s transfers had).
How can you judge the class when spring signing has not started. There will be some good unsigned players available. There will also be players released from early signings because the coach they signed with has been fired or accepted another job. Remember this is how Wade was able to get Tremont Waters after he originally signed with Georgetown before Patrick Ewing was fired.
Before you demean the portal signees lets see whom they get and how they perform, Imagine if McMahon had signed Dalton Knecht last year and raved about him being his best signee, No doubt this board would have been in hysteria that he raved about a second team All Big Sky conference player who dared think he could challenge the big time SEC players.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:25 pm to JimTiger72
Bruce Pearl was already a proven winner at this level and Auburn was a much worse program than LSU. The comparison is absurd.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:28 pm to Madking
quote:I was about to post the same thing. Bruce Pearl was a much more proven coach than CoachMc. He won a DII title, had made numerous Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 prior to coaching at Auburn.
Bruce Pearl was already a proven winner at this level and Auburn was a much worse program than LSU. The comparison is absurd.
It’s a nonsensical comparison to post Pearl’s early Auburn records.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:33 pm to drizztiger
Yep, nothing about the two situations are similar.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:36 pm to tigersbb
quote:
Imagine if McMahon had signed Dalton Knecht last year and raved about him being his best signee
What are you talking about. DK was an incredibly sought after transfer and labeled as top 10 on the market by many. It would have 100 percent warranted.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:39 pm to Big4SALTbro
quote:
He just isn’t a big time coach. He belongs at Murray state not in the sec. He is too nice to get in the mud with the shitbags like Nate Oats
He beat Buzz Williams on the road and Calipari…but…he belongs at a mid major???
We beat 4 NCAAT teams this year…some pretty handily.
Good lord I wonder what you same people have to say about Chris Beard? How terrible is he??
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:41 pm to JimTiger72
quote:
Bruce Pearl at Auburn
Y1: 15-20 (4-14)
Y2: 11-20 (5-13)
Y3: 18-14 (7-12)
Y4: 26-8 (13-5) NCAA R2
Y5: 30-10 (11-7) SECT Champ + Final Four
Pearl's first year at Auburn was 2014-15. He made the Final Four in his 5th season...which was 2018-19. Do you think the college basketball roster building landscape was a BIT different during that time period compared to now? In his first season there he brought in 3 transfers. One from JUCO and to one year grad transfers from mid-major programs. I suspect Bruce would tell you he would have LOVED to have access to over 1,000 college players who were immediately eligible during those first few years at Auburn.
Instead, he had to build like pretty much every coach did during those years. Through good HS recruiting. It's a slower process having to stack HS signing classes. I think Bruce would probably agree with that statement given the fact he's signed exactly FIVE total HS recruits for the 21-22 through 23-24 season. Did Bruce suddenly forget how to recruit HS players? Or did he realize the method of roster building had completely changed with the change in the transfer rules and that bring in multiple transfers per year was the way teams are built now?
But don't take my word. Listen to Bruce himself:
quote:
Roster construction has changed drastically during the 2020s when it comes to college hoops. Whereas the five-star freshmen used to be the prized recruits every year, now there are plentiful star transfers that hit the open market every year and have been utilized as a primary roster-building foundation for many programs. That’s certainly been the case at Auburn and was even before the new rules were implemented a couple years ago allowing for players to transfer without sitting out.
In some ways, Bruce Pearl yearns for the days of old, when the transfers he landed had to sit out a year and improve themselves before stepping on the court. But even with the new rules, Pearl is still leaning heavy on imports to fill out his lineup, even more so than freshmen.
quote:
“The one-time transfer is fine. I used to sit out somebody all the time and have them get a year older and a year better. DeSean Murray, Samir Doughty. I love bringing guys in and having them sit out and what a benefit that was. And I never looked at sitting out as a penalty. It was about getting bigger, getting stronger, getting academically more comfortable, investing in your body and your game and your academic. Sitting also helped get with graduation rates. We don’t hear anything about graduation rates anymore, nothing about APR, none of that stuff anymore that used to carry the day. We’re still doing a great job with all that stuff.
quote:
“The idea is: getting older, that’s the deal. We’ll take one or two high school players every year, one or two, maybe four or five in two years. So last year, we only took one in Aden Holloway. This year, we may take a couple more, but the days of taking three and four high school players every year are over right now. The NCAA tournament showed us that you got to get older and so we have got a roster this year at Auburn that is older and more experienced. I think that should help us.”
Comparing college basketball today to what it was prior to the implementation of the freedom of transfer rules is absurd. EVERY.SINGLE.COACH would agree with that statement.
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