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Started By
Message
Sad that Hamburger Helper is not as good as I remember.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 10/13/26 at 2:42 pm
Haven’t had it in a LONG time. Had a wild hair and got and made some this week. Mac and cheese version. Very disappointing. Used to be a weekly staple in the 70s.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 2:56 pm to muttenstein
quote:
Mac and cheese version
I don't think I've ever had that. Stroganoff one isn't bad in a quick bind.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:05 pm to muttenstein
Once in a blue moon we will make it for the kids- the Velveeta versions are much better than the old HB Helper
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:13 pm to muttenstein
I don't know why they call that stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:51 pm to LSUballs
Real tomato ketchup Eddie??
Nothing but the best Clark!
Nothing but the best Clark!
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:57 pm to muttenstein
I agree, something is missing from the old recipe.
My mom had a knockoff recipe we used that was better anyway. I'll try to find it. Basically ground beef, onion, pasta, cheddar cheese soup and evaporated milk if I remember correctly
My mom had a knockoff recipe we used that was better anyway. I'll try to find it. Basically ground beef, onion, pasta, cheddar cheese soup and evaporated milk if I remember correctly
Posted on 10/13/26 at 4:27 pm to DoomGuy504
quote:
Stroganoff
That's the best one. I didn't eat it forever because the neighborhood kids called it "Strokin' Off"
Posted on 10/13/26 at 4:55 pm to Shexter
Beef Stroganoff Hamburger Helper
1 lb ground beef
1 cup hot water
1 1/2 cups milk
1/2 cup sour cream
1 1/2 cups small egg noodles
1 Tbs corn starch
2 tsp garlic powder
1 tsp onion powder
1 tsp parsley
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp pepper
1 cup sliced fresh mushrooms
Brown and drain ground beef.
Add liquids along with pasta
Simmer covered. The simmer time will be approximately 12-20 minutes for most varieties.
Turn off heat and uncover. Let stand to thicken at least 5 minutes before serving.
Cheeseburger Macaroni Hamburger Helper
As an avid cook, this is almost embarrassing, but my kids love Hamburger Helper. I don’t love Hamburger Helper. It tastes like cardboard and the ingredients list on the side of the box is enough to make you run away screaming. Who knows what that stuff is. A lot of preservatives, for one thing. There’s just nothing fresh about it. And it’s not as if you’re going through a drive-through window and picking up dinner. You still have to cook it. What makes Hamburger Helper so popular is how quick you can get it on the table and the standardization of the directions in every variety along with the cutting open of packets and throwing it in the pot. It requires little thinking, which is often what you need at the end of a long day when you’re tired and everyone is hungry.
But! I (and you) can still give the kids what they want and put a quick home-cooked meal on the table at the same time. Make your own helper! You can even make it in advance so it’s all pre-measured and ready to toss in the pot on busy nights. Just like store-bought helper, your homemade helper comes with standardized directions and “packets” to throw in the pot. Very little thinking required–but in this case, it’s much more fresh and you can feel a whole lot better about feeding it to your family.
Using actual packages of Hamburger Helper and cookbook comparisons for the types of varieties offered along with my own cooking common sense and experience, I’ve broken down some of the most popular Hamburger Helper varieties.
I’ve had several requests for Cheeseburger Macaroni. The way I figure out how to do these is by studying the side of the box then experimenting on my own. Paprika is the “secret” ingredient to get the flavor right with this one, and heavier on the milk than water for a creamy texture.
1 lb ground beef
1 cup hot water
2 cups milk
1 1/2 cups elbow macaroni
Sauce Packet
1 Tbs corn starch
2 tsp paprika
1 tsp onion powder
1 tsp garlic powder
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1 cup cheddar cheese, shredded
Brown and drain one pound of ground beef.
Add water and milk along with the pasta and the sauce packet. Simmer covered. The simmer time will be approximately 12-20 minutes. Stir cheese in during the last few minutes of cook time and put the cover back on the pot.
Turn off heat and uncover. Let stand to thicken at least 5 minutes before serving.
(You can toss a 1/2 cup cheddar on top at the end, too, if you want. We’re going for cheesy here!)
Source: Chickens in the Road
Cheesy Noodles Hamburger Helper
1 Tbs Cornstarch
1 tsp MSG
1 tsp Salt
1 tsp Sugar
1 tsp Parsley
1 Tbs diced mushrooms
1 cup Cheddar
1/4 cup bleu cheese
milk powder
1/8 tsp Citric acid
Chili Mac Hamburger Helper
1 lb ground beef
2 1/4 cups hot water
1/2 cup milk
1 1/2 cups elbow macaroni
1 cup stewed or diced canned tomatoes
1 Tbs corn starch
1 Tbs chili powder
1 tsp onion powder,
1 tsp garlic,
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1/2 cup cheddar or jack cheese, shredded
Brown and drain one pound of ground beef.
Add liquid along with pasta and the other ingredients. Simmer covered. The simmer time will be approximately 12-20 minutes. Stir cheese in during the last few minutes of cook time and put the cover back on the pot.
Turn off heat and uncover. Let stand to thicken at least 5 minutes before serving.
1 lb ground beef
1 cup hot water
1 1/2 cups milk
1/2 cup sour cream
1 1/2 cups small egg noodles
1 Tbs corn starch
2 tsp garlic powder
1 tsp onion powder
1 tsp parsley
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp pepper
1 cup sliced fresh mushrooms
Brown and drain ground beef.
Add liquids along with pasta
Simmer covered. The simmer time will be approximately 12-20 minutes for most varieties.
Turn off heat and uncover. Let stand to thicken at least 5 minutes before serving.
Cheeseburger Macaroni Hamburger Helper
As an avid cook, this is almost embarrassing, but my kids love Hamburger Helper. I don’t love Hamburger Helper. It tastes like cardboard and the ingredients list on the side of the box is enough to make you run away screaming. Who knows what that stuff is. A lot of preservatives, for one thing. There’s just nothing fresh about it. And it’s not as if you’re going through a drive-through window and picking up dinner. You still have to cook it. What makes Hamburger Helper so popular is how quick you can get it on the table and the standardization of the directions in every variety along with the cutting open of packets and throwing it in the pot. It requires little thinking, which is often what you need at the end of a long day when you’re tired and everyone is hungry.
But! I (and you) can still give the kids what they want and put a quick home-cooked meal on the table at the same time. Make your own helper! You can even make it in advance so it’s all pre-measured and ready to toss in the pot on busy nights. Just like store-bought helper, your homemade helper comes with standardized directions and “packets” to throw in the pot. Very little thinking required–but in this case, it’s much more fresh and you can feel a whole lot better about feeding it to your family.
Using actual packages of Hamburger Helper and cookbook comparisons for the types of varieties offered along with my own cooking common sense and experience, I’ve broken down some of the most popular Hamburger Helper varieties.
I’ve had several requests for Cheeseburger Macaroni. The way I figure out how to do these is by studying the side of the box then experimenting on my own. Paprika is the “secret” ingredient to get the flavor right with this one, and heavier on the milk than water for a creamy texture.
1 lb ground beef
1 cup hot water
2 cups milk
1 1/2 cups elbow macaroni
Sauce Packet
1 Tbs corn starch
2 tsp paprika
1 tsp onion powder
1 tsp garlic powder
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1 cup cheddar cheese, shredded
Brown and drain one pound of ground beef.
Add water and milk along with the pasta and the sauce packet. Simmer covered. The simmer time will be approximately 12-20 minutes. Stir cheese in during the last few minutes of cook time and put the cover back on the pot.
Turn off heat and uncover. Let stand to thicken at least 5 minutes before serving.
(You can toss a 1/2 cup cheddar on top at the end, too, if you want. We’re going for cheesy here!)
Source: Chickens in the Road
Cheesy Noodles Hamburger Helper
1 Tbs Cornstarch
1 tsp MSG
1 tsp Salt
1 tsp Sugar
1 tsp Parsley
1 Tbs diced mushrooms
1 cup Cheddar
1/4 cup bleu cheese
milk powder
1/8 tsp Citric acid
Chili Mac Hamburger Helper
1 lb ground beef
2 1/4 cups hot water
1/2 cup milk
1 1/2 cups elbow macaroni
1 cup stewed or diced canned tomatoes
1 Tbs corn starch
1 Tbs chili powder
1 tsp onion powder,
1 tsp garlic,
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1/2 cup cheddar or jack cheese, shredded
Brown and drain one pound of ground beef.
Add liquid along with pasta and the other ingredients. Simmer covered. The simmer time will be approximately 12-20 minutes. Stir cheese in during the last few minutes of cook time and put the cover back on the pot.
Turn off heat and uncover. Let stand to thicken at least 5 minutes before serving.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 4:56 pm to Stadium Rat
Enhanced Tuna Helper
I wouldn't have believed it either: but it's true. It only involves some additions and substitutions. I have done this successfully only with Tuna Tetrazzini and Fettucine Alfredo.
Replace the indicated amount of milk with half and half.
Use only butter.
After putting the butter, half and half and water into the pan, add about one quarter teaspoon of fresh black pepper. The amount varies with the quality of the pepper. In my experience, Williams-Sonoma tastes the best.
Add one dash of Tabasco (original).
Use tuna packed in oil.
Reduce the indicated amount of water by one half cup. Replace it with one cup of dry vermouth. My favotite is Martini & Rossi. Do this just before covering.
Lower heat as liquid is reduced. Cook until quite soft.
Remove from heat and let stand covered for about fifteen minutes. Taste it. If there is an odd lemony flavor, the alcohol has not completely evaporated, so give it a few more minutes.
You may or may not wish to top it with Parmesan or Romano or a mixture of the two. I still haven't decided. But either way, it is good.
Hamburger Helper
Hamburger helper is much better when it doesn’t come from a box! This is a great one-pot dish perfect for the whole family. The cheesy, ground beef-filled pasta is a comforting meal for bone chilling nights. For those unfamiliar, the recipe is basically a hamburger macaroni and cheese. It’s made with minimal ingredients so any additional trips out into the cold to the grocery store are limited. I turn to this as a “clean out the pantry” meal. It’s a great way to use up leftover ground beef! If you’re a fan of nostalgic recipes like this give my beef stroganoff or stovetop broccoli Cheddar mac and cheese a try.
Step 1: Cook aromatics.
Heat a large pot over medium heat, add the olive oil and heat through. Add the onion and sauté until the onion is soft and translucent, about 6 minutes. Add the garlic and continue to sauté until the garlic is fragrant, about 30 seconds.
Step 2: Cook beef.
Add the ground beef and cook, breaking it up with a wooden spoon until the meat is browned, about 8 minutes. Season with salt and pepper.
ground beef and sautéed onions with wooden spoon.
seasoned ground beef for hamburger helper.
Step 3: Add tomato paste.
Stir in the tomato paste and chili powder.
Step 4: Cook pasta.
Add the beef stock and bring to a boil. Add the pasta and cook, stirring occasionally, until the pasta is al dente, about 8 to 10 minutes (the cooking time may differ depending on the pasta shape).
Quick homemade hamburger helper recipe with ground beef and noodles added.
homemade hamburger helper made with ground beef, pasta, and cheddar cheese.
Step 5: Finish with cheese.
Remove from heat and stir in the cream, Cheddar cheese and half the chives, stirring until the cheese has melted.
Step 6: Serve.
Ladle into bowls and serve topped with the remaining chives.
Tips
Swaps and substitutions
Meat: The ground beef can be replaced with another leaner ground meat like turkey or chicken.
Spice: While this version is more kid-friendly without added spice, try adding a touch of cayenne or a bit of hot sauce for a bit of added flavor.
Broth: The beef broth can be swapped for chicken stock for a more mellow flavor.
What to serve with hamburger helper
Balsamic Sriracha Brussels Sprouts
Blanched and Sautéed Green Beans
Honey Glazed Carrots
Quick homemade hamburger helper recipe with ground beef and cheesy pasta.
Italian Fettucine Alfredo Tuna Helper
1 Tbs unsalted butter
1 Tbs flour
1 cup whole milk or cream
3 cloves garlic, minced
1 cup freshly grated Parmesan cheese
1 tsp dried parsley or 1 T fresh
1 can drained tuna
8 oz fettuccine pasta
Cook pasta according to box directions until al dente. Don’t over cook it or it won’t absorb the sauce.
Meanwhile, sauté garlic and parsley in butter for about a minute over medium heat. Add flour and whisk together until a paste forms, then slowly stir in the milk, whisking constantly. Stir until the sauce is smooth and lump-free. Sprinkle in cheese a tablespoon at a time, whisking and letting the cheese melt between additions. Add drained tuna, and cooked pasta. Stir gently to combine and let sit for 3-5 minutes off heat so the sauce can be absorbed by the pasta. Enjoy!
Servings: 4
Tuna Tetrazzini Tuna Helper
11 oz package of tuna
16 oz box of linguine
1 1/2 cups heavy cream
4 Tbs butter
1 Shallot chopped
2 cloves garlic chopped
1/2 cup grated Parmesan Cheese
1/2 tsp Black pepper
1/4 cup fresh chopped parsley
Boil water in large pot and salt water. Add pasta and cook til El dente
In skillet on med heat melt butter and saute shallot and garlic. Add in cream and stir constantly for about 5-8 min. Add in pepper and simmer for 1-2 min. Add in cheese and stir well. Then add in the tuna and mix.
Drain pasta and place in large bowl. Pour sauce over pasta and toss. Garnish with the fresh parsley and serve!
Upscaled Tuna Helper
This is my take on tuna helper. It's yummy, easy to make and perfect for a quick dinner after a long day at work. Oh and my roommates happen to be big fans so I always make sure to make enough for them too!
olive oil
1 medium red onion (chopped)
red pepper flakes
2 cans tuna in olive oil
3 tbs capers
1/2 cup white wine
splash of chicken broth
salt & pepper
10 oz bow tie pasta
your choice of cheese(Parmesan, shredded mozzarella, ricotta, etc)
Cook pasta according to the box, I add a splash of olive oil to the water so the pasta doesn't stick together. Meanwhile, heat olive oil in medium skillet, add onions and saute for about 5 minutes. Add in red pepper flakes (adjust to your preference). Add in tuna and capers to the pan, then wine and reduce heat to low and simmer for 10 minutes. (During this time the pasta should be ready to drain, after drained place in bowl and drizzle with some olive oil) At the end of the 10 minutes add a splash of chicken broth and salt and pepper to taste, add tuna mixture to the pasta and mix thoroughly. Top with whatever cheese you have on hand and enjoy!
Author Notes
When I made it last night I only had ricotta and added about two tablespoons to mix in with the tuna and pasta. It was delish! I love this dish it's one of my favorites and I hope you will enjoy it too :)
I wouldn't have believed it either: but it's true. It only involves some additions and substitutions. I have done this successfully only with Tuna Tetrazzini and Fettucine Alfredo.
Replace the indicated amount of milk with half and half.
Use only butter.
After putting the butter, half and half and water into the pan, add about one quarter teaspoon of fresh black pepper. The amount varies with the quality of the pepper. In my experience, Williams-Sonoma tastes the best.
Add one dash of Tabasco (original).
Use tuna packed in oil.
Reduce the indicated amount of water by one half cup. Replace it with one cup of dry vermouth. My favotite is Martini & Rossi. Do this just before covering.
Lower heat as liquid is reduced. Cook until quite soft.
Remove from heat and let stand covered for about fifteen minutes. Taste it. If there is an odd lemony flavor, the alcohol has not completely evaporated, so give it a few more minutes.
You may or may not wish to top it with Parmesan or Romano or a mixture of the two. I still haven't decided. But either way, it is good.
Hamburger Helper
Hamburger helper is much better when it doesn’t come from a box! This is a great one-pot dish perfect for the whole family. The cheesy, ground beef-filled pasta is a comforting meal for bone chilling nights. For those unfamiliar, the recipe is basically a hamburger macaroni and cheese. It’s made with minimal ingredients so any additional trips out into the cold to the grocery store are limited. I turn to this as a “clean out the pantry” meal. It’s a great way to use up leftover ground beef! If you’re a fan of nostalgic recipes like this give my beef stroganoff or stovetop broccoli Cheddar mac and cheese a try.
Step 1: Cook aromatics.
Heat a large pot over medium heat, add the olive oil and heat through. Add the onion and sauté until the onion is soft and translucent, about 6 minutes. Add the garlic and continue to sauté until the garlic is fragrant, about 30 seconds.
Step 2: Cook beef.
Add the ground beef and cook, breaking it up with a wooden spoon until the meat is browned, about 8 minutes. Season with salt and pepper.
ground beef and sautéed onions with wooden spoon.
seasoned ground beef for hamburger helper.
Step 3: Add tomato paste.
Stir in the tomato paste and chili powder.
Step 4: Cook pasta.
Add the beef stock and bring to a boil. Add the pasta and cook, stirring occasionally, until the pasta is al dente, about 8 to 10 minutes (the cooking time may differ depending on the pasta shape).
Quick homemade hamburger helper recipe with ground beef and noodles added.
homemade hamburger helper made with ground beef, pasta, and cheddar cheese.
Step 5: Finish with cheese.
Remove from heat and stir in the cream, Cheddar cheese and half the chives, stirring until the cheese has melted.
Step 6: Serve.
Ladle into bowls and serve topped with the remaining chives.
Tips
Swaps and substitutions
Meat: The ground beef can be replaced with another leaner ground meat like turkey or chicken.
Spice: While this version is more kid-friendly without added spice, try adding a touch of cayenne or a bit of hot sauce for a bit of added flavor.
Broth: The beef broth can be swapped for chicken stock for a more mellow flavor.
What to serve with hamburger helper
Balsamic Sriracha Brussels Sprouts
Blanched and Sautéed Green Beans
Honey Glazed Carrots
Quick homemade hamburger helper recipe with ground beef and cheesy pasta.
Italian Fettucine Alfredo Tuna Helper
1 Tbs unsalted butter
1 Tbs flour
1 cup whole milk or cream
3 cloves garlic, minced
1 cup freshly grated Parmesan cheese
1 tsp dried parsley or 1 T fresh
1 can drained tuna
8 oz fettuccine pasta
Cook pasta according to box directions until al dente. Don’t over cook it or it won’t absorb the sauce.
Meanwhile, sauté garlic and parsley in butter for about a minute over medium heat. Add flour and whisk together until a paste forms, then slowly stir in the milk, whisking constantly. Stir until the sauce is smooth and lump-free. Sprinkle in cheese a tablespoon at a time, whisking and letting the cheese melt between additions. Add drained tuna, and cooked pasta. Stir gently to combine and let sit for 3-5 minutes off heat so the sauce can be absorbed by the pasta. Enjoy!
Servings: 4
Tuna Tetrazzini Tuna Helper
11 oz package of tuna
16 oz box of linguine
1 1/2 cups heavy cream
4 Tbs butter
1 Shallot chopped
2 cloves garlic chopped
1/2 cup grated Parmesan Cheese
1/2 tsp Black pepper
1/4 cup fresh chopped parsley
Boil water in large pot and salt water. Add pasta and cook til El dente
In skillet on med heat melt butter and saute shallot and garlic. Add in cream and stir constantly for about 5-8 min. Add in pepper and simmer for 1-2 min. Add in cheese and stir well. Then add in the tuna and mix.
Drain pasta and place in large bowl. Pour sauce over pasta and toss. Garnish with the fresh parsley and serve!
Upscaled Tuna Helper
This is my take on tuna helper. It's yummy, easy to make and perfect for a quick dinner after a long day at work. Oh and my roommates happen to be big fans so I always make sure to make enough for them too!
olive oil
1 medium red onion (chopped)
red pepper flakes
2 cans tuna in olive oil
3 tbs capers
1/2 cup white wine
splash of chicken broth
salt & pepper
10 oz bow tie pasta
your choice of cheese(Parmesan, shredded mozzarella, ricotta, etc)
Cook pasta according to the box, I add a splash of olive oil to the water so the pasta doesn't stick together. Meanwhile, heat olive oil in medium skillet, add onions and saute for about 5 minutes. Add in red pepper flakes (adjust to your preference). Add in tuna and capers to the pan, then wine and reduce heat to low and simmer for 10 minutes. (During this time the pasta should be ready to drain, after drained place in bowl and drizzle with some olive oil) At the end of the 10 minutes add a splash of chicken broth and salt and pepper to taste, add tuna mixture to the pasta and mix thoroughly. Top with whatever cheese you have on hand and enjoy!
Author Notes
When I made it last night I only had ricotta and added about two tablespoons to mix in with the tuna and pasta. It was delish! I love this dish it's one of my favorites and I hope you will enjoy it too :)
Posted on 10/13/26 at 5:01 pm to slinger1317
quote:
the Velveeta versions are much better than the old HB Helper
I just realized I call the Velveeta one's hamburger helper out of habit.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 6:01 pm to muttenstein
It isn't your memory. Most products today have cheaper ingredients or they have completely changed the ingredients that cost the most.
Hormel's Chili used to actually have plenty of meat and beans. Now it is almost 100% water with miniscule fragment of maybe beef.
For older products, I bet the recipe is nowhere close to what it was 40 years ago.
Hormel's Chili used to actually have plenty of meat and beans. Now it is almost 100% water with miniscule fragment of maybe beef.
For older products, I bet the recipe is nowhere close to what it was 40 years ago.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 6:34 pm to slinger1317
quote:
the Velveeta versions are much better than the old HB Helper
Velveeta was too high class for us, I didn't know they had HB Helper style dinners. I wonder what would happen if I used SPAM instead of ground beef...
Posted on 10/13/26 at 8:56 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
Most products today have cheaper ingredients or they have completely changed the ingredients that cost the most.
Without a doubt. I was working with Hersheys years ago and one of their old-timers told me that the current version (this was 14 years ago) of a chocolate bar is nowhere near what it used to be. Fillers like paraffin have completely changed the flavor profile. They had the epiphany that fatties don’t care where it’s artificial or not.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 10:21 pm to muttenstein
quote:There are literally hundreds of things that I enjoy and appreciate now that I didn't like then, when I liked Hamburger Helper, like, older women.
Sad that Hamburger Helper is not as good as I remember.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 10:26 pm to DR93Berlin
quote:
of a chocolate bar is nowhere near what it used to be
If only the federal government wasn't writing and adopting laws that impacted food products. Who knew they were experts in chocolate? This is from 2023, but stuff like this gets adjusted whenever the industry wants it to be adjusted to block smaller competitors. 3.39 percent? Why not 3.4 percent? Why not 3.38 percent? I bet a lobbyist has the answer.
quote:
163.130 Milk chocolate.
(a) Description.
(1) Milk chocolate is the solid or semiplastic food prepared by intimately mixing and grinding chocolate liquor with one or more of the optional dairy ingredients and one or more optional nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners, and may contain one or more of the other optional ingredients specified in paragraph (b) of this section.
(2) Milk chocolate contains not less than 10 percent by weight of chocolate liquor complying with the requirements of § 163.111 as calculated by subtracting from the weight of the chocolate liquor used the weight of cacao fat therein and the weights of alkali, neutralizing and seasoning ingredients, multiplying the remainder by 2.2, dividing the result by the weight of the finished milk chocolate, and multiplying the quotient by 100. The finished milk chocolate contains not less than 3.39 percent by weight of milkfat and not less than 12 percent by weight of total milk solids based on those dairy ingredients specified in paragraph (b)(4) of this section, exclusive of any added sweetener or other dairy-derived ingredient that is added beyond that amount that is normally present in the specified dairy ingredient.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 7:06 am to DoomGuy504
quote:
I just realized I call the Velveeta one's hamburger helper out of habit.
We do the same thing. We call it Hamburger Helper but we know which one we're talking about
Kind of like the old "Bring me a Coke"....."What kind?"
Posted on 10/14/26 at 8:36 am to LemmyLives
quote:
If only the federal government wasn't writing and adopting laws that impacted food products. Who knew they were experts in chocolate?
They're rarely writing those regs on their own.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 9:48 am to muttenstein
I made this recently, and it was pretty good. Hamburger pasta
Posted on 10/14/26 at 11:05 am to wesfau
quote:
They're rarely writing those regs on their own.
quote:
I bet a lobbyist has the answer.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 11:30 am to muttenstein
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