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re: The "they will just use a ladder" wall arguement
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:08 am to russellvillehog
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:08 am to russellvillehog
quote:... and we'd spend that 5billion on the ecological study proving if it was safe or not to the environment.
Run some current through it,
0
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:10 am to russellvillehog
quote:Takes one to know one, I guess?
You are a fricking idiot.
quote:Yes, I have quite a bit of experience with steel in many forms.
what does steel slat mean? Do you know what that is?
I have experience with problem-solving, as well.
quote:Ah, I see. I don't give two shits about the wall, so I wasn't aware there was a final design. So steel slats, huh? That makes it extraordinarily simple to tie a rope off to the top. Why do you think it would be so hard and people would resort to throwing sick babies off the top?
Imagine billions of 50 foot tall rods so close together that you cant walk between them. If you tossed a rock over it the rope would just go between them.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:12 am to greygoose
quote:
Just ask the "ladder argument" dumbass if the doors to his home has locks on it. When he says yes, just walk away.
A burglar can get get into a house with the doors locked, but people still lock them anyway. I guess most people just don't want strangers walking into their homes without any encumbrance.
Not sure why you see this as a compelling argument. The two pragmatic arguments I've seen against the wall (ignoring for the sake of this thread the more philosophical arguments) are that it's too expensive based on how effective it will be, with the effectiveness calling into question the fact that it won't fully surround the country.
To address your argument, a decent lock costs less than $20. Said lock goes on a door that sits within walls that 100% surround your house. To draw out the wall analogy, it would be the equivalent of deciding whether to purchase a $10k lock that would go on a door of a house with only one wall. Said "solution" would be extremely expensive and would be only marginally effective as it would only block people coming from one direction while doing nothing to stop them from simply entering your home from a different direction.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:16 am to awestruck
quote:
People don't need to tote 60-70-80 pound ladders around for miles and miles. They don't need a pickup truck with racks to carry an extension ladder to the wall. All they need to know is Juan three houses down, on the left, has one and makes a run every three days, and he'll roll out a rope ladder to help you down the other side. Show up... hop in.. Juan is the one!
Why all the fixation with seeing this as a permanent fix, when it's a sure fire business opportunity and bound to be jumped upon by someone?
You may be borderline retarded.
There are reports of thousands of children crossing just last month. Caravans of 10K-15K people have formed in attempt to breach our border. A physical barricade may not stop all, but it will exponentially reduce the current success rate. The Border Patrol agents that do this shite for a living, have stated this repeatedly. Unfortunately, the "no-borders" crowd like you, like to spew nonsense.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:27 am to russellvillehog
My response is some will climb over or dig under, but there won't be thousands just walking in,
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:28 am to russellvillehog
yeah, each person would need their own ladder. The criminal element is never able to be creative, I am sure they would never just keep a stash of ladders on their side.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:28 am to Korkstand
quote:
You realize you can tie a rope to a fricking rock on the ground and throw it over a wall, correct? You just need twice as much rope.
So in addition to a 50 foot ladder, they’ll need to bring 100 feet of rope sturdy enough to support a man, then find a rock heavy and secure enough to anchor the rope with weight on it.
Have you ever played Age of Empires?
Walls are not the end all, be all. They are a deterrent, and funnel people to smaller areas more easily monitored, And make it harder to breach.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:28 am to Joshjrn
quote:
Not sure why you see this as a compelling argument. The two pragmatic arguments I've seen against the wall (ignoring for the sake of this thread the more philosophical arguments) are that it's too expensive based on how effective it will be, with the effectiveness calling into question the fact that it won't fully surround the country.
To address your argument, a decent lock costs less than $20. Said lock goes on a door that sits within walls that 100% surround your house. To draw out the wall analogy, it would be the equivalent of deciding whether to purchase a $10k lock that would go on a door of a house with only one wall. Said "solution" would be extremely expensive and would be only marginally effective as it would only block people coming from one direction while doing nothing to stop them from simply entering your home from a different direction.
If the vast majority of break-ins to your home, comes from one certain access point, you secure that access point. My analogy concerning a locked door was, obviously, lost on you. A barrier is placed to stop or slow down an intruder, whether it is your home or your country's border. As for you comment about the cost, you do know $5 billion Trump wants for the wall is a drop in the bucket compared to what our tax dollars pay every year, in regards to the financial effects of illegal immigration, right? Social services in California to illegals, is astronomical. Check out your local schools. See how many ESL teachers they have on staff. Those are positions that could have gone towards more traditional teacher, thereby reducing class size and providing a better education for the CITIZENS of that community!
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:33 am to russellvillehog
quote:no, the coyote who drives up to the Mexican side will bring the gear and take it with him when he leaves.
So these illegals, who can't even provide their own children water to keep from dying, are going to drag a 30-50 foot ladder thousands of miles through the desert. then once they reach the wall will climb said ladder. The wall is made of steel slats so there is no top to tie a rope off on to repel down the other side. Will then toss their sick and dying child over the side of the wall to plummet to their immediate death. Then will do the same themselves.
You have a rather outdated view of life on the border, if you envision Chuy walking all the way from Guatemala to the Rio Grande.
This post was edited on 1/4/19 at 10:39 am
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:33 am to russellvillehog
quote:
these illegals, who can't even provide their own children water to keep from dying, are going to drag 2 30-50 foot ladders thousands of miles through the desert.
fify
they need 2 ladders unless they plan on jumping off the other side...
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:38 am to Korkstand
quote:
simple to tie a rope off to the top.
Then you would grab hold of the rope, and it would slide down the pole with you. You still fall and break bones.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:39 am to greygoose
quote:
If the vast majority of break-ins to your home, comes from one certain access point, you secure that access point. My analogy concerning a locked door was, obviously, lost on you. A barrier is placed to stop or slow down an intruder, whether it is your home or your country's border.
No, what’s apparently lost on you is that securing a home that is 100% enclosed has little in common with securing a landmass that isn’t 100% enclosed.
A more apt analogy would be a neighborhood that is discussing paying for a fence/gate that would only enclose a small fraction of the neighborhood while leaving massive unfenced areas on either side of the fence. Would it reduce the number of people coming through that one access point? Sure. But if it simply means people use other access points, it was a giant waste of money.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:41 am to AggieHank86
quote:
no, the coyote who drives up to the Mexican side will bring the gear and take it with him when he leaves.
You have a rather outdated view of life on the border
Coyotes don't do this shite for free, and they don't pop you in a van and just drop you off in downtown Tijuana. They charge lots of money to get you across and they know of secluded areas where the success rate is high. Now imagine if there was a physical barrier. Do you think the coyote is going to charge the same amount if he has to do a lot more and have a much smaller success rate? No! His prices will soar! Most won't be able to afford the new rate, but the coyote will make the same and won't have to deal with as much volume.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:42 am to russellvillehog
Anti-Wall people need to be honest with themselves in the debate.
No one pro-wall is saying build the wall and forget about it because it solves the problem. Of course illegals will still try to breach it.
The question is, which is easier to cross?
This...
Or this...
By slowing them down, capture percentage will increase and illegal crossing attempts will begin to decrease. It's not only a physical barrier but also as a psychological barrier.
No one pro-wall is saying build the wall and forget about it because it solves the problem. Of course illegals will still try to breach it.
The question is, which is easier to cross?
This...
Or this...
By slowing them down, capture percentage will increase and illegal crossing attempts will begin to decrease. It's not only a physical barrier but also as a psychological barrier.
This post was edited on 1/4/19 at 10:44 am
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:43 am to AggieHank86
quote:
no, the coyote who drives up to the Mexican side will bring the gear and take it with him when he leaves
No they wont
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:44 am to Korkstand
quote:
Ah, I see. I don't give two shits about the wall, so I wasn't aware there was a final design. So steel slats, huh? That makes it extraordinarily simple to tie a rope off to the top. Why do you think it would be so hard and people would resort to throwing sick babies off the top?
Use your problem solving skills to scale this wall.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:50 am to Joshjrn
quote:
No, what’s apparently lost on you is that securing a home that is 100% enclosed has little in common with securing a landmass that isn’t 100% enclosed.
A more apt analogy would be a neighborhood that is discussing paying for a fence/gate that would only enclose a small fraction of the neighborhood while leaving massive unfenced areas on either side of the fence. Would it reduce the number of people coming through that one access point? Sure. But if it simply means people use other access points, it was a giant waste of money.
Good God! Are you really this dense? We don't have mass illegal immigration from our Canadian border, Atlantic or Pacific coast! The overwhelming issue is the Mexican border! We don't need to wall off the whole fricking country. Hell, we don't need to wall off the entire Mexican border, as there are natural obstacles already in place. The whole idea of a physical barrier is to stop or slow down the intruder. The Great Wall of China did not encompass the whole country, just the border where the Mongols would attempt invasion.
A locked door is much better than no door, and that is what we have at the current time.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 10:58 am to russellvillehog
quote:
Then you would grab hold of the rope, and it would slide down the pole with you. You still fall and break bones.
How simple-minded are you? There are numerous knots that hold fast to a vertical pole. In addition, all you need is a goddamned potato sack to put on the top of a pole and give you something to tie to if you're not good at tying knots.
But apparently you can't think past the end of your own nose, so I guess I shouldn't expect much logical thought from you.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 11:06 am to BugAC
quote:Sure thing.
Use your problem solving skills to scale this wall.
There looks to be a horizontal beam near the top. If it's too high to throw a weighted rope over it from the ground, and if a ladder isn't feasible, then you can shoot an arrow with fishing line over it. Once the arrow is on the other side, pull the fishing line such that the arrow dangles and you can grab it. Tie the fishing line to a rope and pull the rope over the top with the fishing line. Now you have a rope for scaling up and down. Either bring a buddy to help hold down the loose end while you're climbing, or put a grappling hook at both ends of the rope.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 11:08 am to Korkstand
quote:
How simple-minded are you? There are numerous knots that hold fast to a vertical pole. In addition, all you need is a goddamned potato sack to put on the top of a pole and give you something to tie to if you're not good at tying knots.
But apparently you can't think past the end of your own nose, so I guess I shouldn't expect much logical thought from you.
So, let me get this straight. Pablo is going to get a 30-50ft ladder from someone, put it up against the wall, (sensors would be activated at that point), climb the ladder, attached a 50ft rope securely to a vertical slat of steel, repel down, then run like Hell while Border Patrol is pursuing in a vehicle? How many do you think will be successful? How many do you think will be successful without any type of barrier?
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