re: The "they will just use a ladder" wall arguement

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Jesus I have a suggestion for you and a fricking rope.

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It's called Google.

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Still don't know what in particular you're referring to. But you're asking why would someone selling a service for thousands of dollars say you need to buy now because soon the opportunity will go away? Do I really need to answer that for you?

Not an alter but okay

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How do you accomplish anything in your daily life if you think you have to be an expert to tie a fricking knot?

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You don't, but if you are forming footholes in a rope every couple feet, you need to know how to tie one, and what kind of knot. Same with securing a rope that will hold for several hours. The average poor uneducated immigrant probably hasn't had a ropes course.

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You and that rock. You keep acting as if I'm dumb for suggesting one find a nearby rock to tie a rope to in the absence of any trees or other way to secure a rope to a non-slatted wall. Why? Would you prefer to haul around an earth anchor? "But where will these poor mexicans get one of those?" So I say use a goddamned rock, which are free and plentiful in many areas along the border, and you just can't get over it. As if tying a rope to a rock is just the funniest thing you've ever heard. A rock! Absurd!

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If not a rock, what is the anchor point. And stop getting excited, Sally. Just questioning your flawed line of thinking.

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I've lost count of how many times I've repeated this, but here goes again. The rope goes over the beam and both ends reach the ground. You grab one end, I grab the other. Done. Rope secured.

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It is not secured. You have 1 end of the rope, Juan has the other. Are you expecting Juan to hold that rope while your fatass scales that wall? The rope is secured at 1 point, Juan. You no longer secure it because your dumbass is trying to shimmy up the rope. So as you grab the rope, you pull the rope back over the wall and it falls on top of you.

Or is your scenario, Juan pulls you over the wall, while you ride the loose end to the top? What happens when you get to the top of the steel sheets? Juan is one strong SOB.

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o how many pounds of food and water would you guess they were carrying? And you're worried about a few pounds of rope that could get them ALL over a wall?

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Depends on the trip. And you need a bow and arrow, which you assume is readily available in the country they are fleeing. Assuming you believe they are asylum seeking refugees, which would mean these oppressed people were somehow allowed to purchase a bow and arrow, and professional climbing rope.

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I'll take that to mean that no, you don't. Fortunately, though, the rest of the world is actually intelligent enough to manage to tie a fricking knot.

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I would wager the average American, nonetheless South American, knows how to tie 1 foot not, nonetheless several. Willing to bet, not many South Americans are avid climbers either.

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It is very common rope, actually made specifically for climbing things! They even make tiny backpacks specifically for carrying these ropes! They are plentiful in all corners of the world. I bet even a South American could afford one.

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Hmmm, so they can afford luxuries such as climbing materials, yet are fleeing their countries, why?

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It does if it's used keep productive workers from helping to grow the GDP.

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That's not the impact of borrowing. Thus borrowing has no affect on GDP.

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The government doesn't have a surplus it's looking to spend on something. All new expenditures are basically on borrowed money. In order to build the wall, you'll have to add to the debt. You got that?

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No shite. However, I believe governments main job is the defense of this country. The wall is a drop in the bucket for the defense of this country.
Secondly, since when have you regressives given a shite about spending. Don't pretend that you care about debt/deficit or the GDP. You cheered on Obama as he taxed and spent our way $10 trillion more in debt, meanwhile chased out business from the country, thus reducing GDP, and said that "those jobs aren't coming back anymore". So shut up about spending, no one buys it from the left.

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If the net effect of illegal immigration is positive for the GDP, why would you want to spend money to kick them out and reduce the GDP?

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Who says it's positive? Are you conflating illegal immigration with a guest worker program, where immigrants are actually taxed on the money they earn? How about, if you are here to work low paying jobs that Americans won't do, you apply for a guest worker program, which many do, and follow proper protocol. Are you opposed to immigrants following the proper channels?

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And you expect south americans to have this rope at the ready?

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If planning a long trek to enter another country illegally, sourcing your basic climbing rope is quite likely the least of your concerns. You act as if these people don't have access to ANYTHING.

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Again, bow, arrow, small backpack for rope, string, gloves, etc. Very light.

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Food, water....big rock.

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This is the last time I will address the rock. The rocks are already there at the border. That is the ONLY reason I suggested tying a rope to a rock, so that you would have to haul less stuff. But you just can't stop suggesting that some idiot would haul a heavy rock a thousand fricking miles. I honestly don't know if I've ever met a person as stupid as you.

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That's pretty unstable.

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Desperate times call for desperate measures. But given the choice between climbing 30 feet of unstable rope, and living 30 years of unstable life, which do you choose? The rope doesn't seem so daunting.

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You can't reasonably climb a rope that is not secured at 2 anchorage points.

What are the anchorage points for the ascent?
What are the anchorage points for the descent?

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WTfrick are you talking about? People climb ropes secured at one point (the top) all the time. And a rope draped over a beam and held at the bottom on one end works perfectly well.

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What do you call people invading your country?

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invading...

I know you've got your mind made up, and you will continue using that term just to disparage people who are trying to make a better life.

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So then you would admit that a wall is a very big impediment to crossing into the country, and would deter many would be illegals, correct?

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To a degree, sure. But many of the current illegals just overstayed their visas. Those who decide to cross the southern border will find ways to do it regardless. How much it will slow illegal immigration is anyone's guess, but that's all it is.

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You have not proven that getting up and down a wall is relatively easy, unless you are an experienced climber. 99.9% of the boarder crossers are not experienced climbers, are not physically fit, are not all men. So try again.

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Look, you asked me how to get over the wall that you posted a photo of, and I gave you a valid solution taking the weight and cost of the materials into account. I even accounted for the skills required, which are very basic (shooting a bow/arrow, tying knots). The rest is just the physical act of climbing a rope, which is not as difficult as you seem to think it is.



A rope loop ladder. And I only suggested that because it would be lighter and easier to carry than a regular rope ladder with rungs or an extension ladder.

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So what material are you using? Big rock is your best answer. Unless you think they will fashion a deadman out of concrete. What will they use to secure the anchorage points?

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Or, like I've said numerous times, just have someone hold the end.

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So are they going to slide down the rope, like a fireman's pole?

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Damn, do I have to explain every little detail? Are you really that incapable of logical thought? You can pull 30' of non-looped/knotted rope over the top until the top loop gets to the top. If it won't go over, no big deal. Someone climbs up and guides the first 30' of loops over the top, then you have 30' of loop rungs up and down both sides.

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For whom? Everyone? You think it is easy for your average illegal immmigrant? Do i need to explain to you the difficulty of trying to climb an unsecured rope?

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It's so difficult an 8 year old girl can do it. But if you just can't imagine hauling the weight of a ladder with rungs, like I said it can be done with just rope loops. A little trickier to climb, but nowhere near the impossible task you make it out to be. Especially not with a wall for stability and someone holding the bottom of the rope.

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The rocks are already there at the border.

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Really? You know this for certain. Which points and where are these rocks. I will grant you there may be some within miles of the border, but it's not like all areas of the border are parallel to a mountain range or rock formation.

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But you just can't stop suggesting that some idiot would haul a heavy rock a thousand fricking miles. I honestly don't know if I've ever met a person as stupid as you.

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So what happens if you don't have a rock? What do you use, Juan?

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But given the choice between climbing 30 feet of unstable rope, and living 30 years of unstable life, which do you choose? The rope doesn't seem so daunting.

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I'm not discussing someone's will, i'm discussing physical ability. Majority of immigrants can't scale this wall, even with your fantastical accessory kit.

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People climb ropes secured at one point (the top) all the time. And a rope draped over a beam and held at the bottom on one end works perfectly well.

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Ok, let's go with this. How do you get down when you are at the top? The walls pictures, don't have a ledge to stand on. So do you assume Juan will be carrying another rope as well, tie off to the top (while still being on the first rope) then swing over to the other side, to the second rope? That's going to be some pretty difficult maneuvering to try to swing over one leg, find the foot hole on the 2nd unsecured rope, then swing over another foot. Keep in mind, it looks as though that beam is a few feet from the top, so you will have to reach down for the rope, then hopefully not slip while trying to put a foot hold in that second rope.

Point being, your "easy wall climb" is rather hazardous considering the penalty for falling from the top of that rope is serious injury or death. In other words, your idea is idiotic. You average South American will not think of your idea, nor is fit enough to perform such a feat.

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I know you've got your mind made up, and you will continue using that term just to disparage people who are trying to make a better life.

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Yeah, just like that caravan, huh? I mean, i know most asylum seekers fearing for their life from oppression of their home country wave their native countries flag, throw rocks at the asylum countries protectors, then demand a $50k ransom to return from their "horrible" country. Sorry, i'm not as weak as you.

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To a degree, sure. But many of the current illegals just overstayed their visas.

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OK, then kick them out. Wall wasn't there the first time they crossed.

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Those who decide to cross the southern border will find ways to do it regardless. How much it will slow illegal immigration is anyone's guess, but that's all it is.

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And an educated guess would say that a difficult and life threatening barrier would reduce those numbers dramatically. Couple that with strictly enforcing our current immigration laws, and tightening them up, meanwhile heavily penalizing sanctuary cities should slow that illegal wave to a drip. Either that or elect a Democrat as POTUS, and all the jobs will leave again and no one will want to come here.

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I even accounted for the skills required, which are very basic (shooting a bow/arrow, tying knots). The rest is just the physical act of climbing a rope, which is not as difficult as you seem to think it is.

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Well unlike you or me, not all S. Americans have the skills to do so. Many do not. If they are so oppressed to having to leave their native country out of fear for their own lives, i doubt they had the leisure time to bow hunt or take a basic survival course, or have a parent to show them how to tie knots. I understand how simple learning to tie a foothold on a rope could be, if you learned it. But many of these illegals are not educated. They don't have access, and some frankly don't have the capacity or know that they would have to learn how to assemble this rope ladder. Then, majority of them are not fit or capable enough to scale a 30' wall with the barriers that we have established exist to mounting and crossing the wall.

Mounting the wall may seem easy to you. But you aren't a poor soul form S. America/Mexico/etc...

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It's so difficult an 8 year old girl can do it.

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1) That's not a loop rope
2) That's a recreational activity with no danger of being harmed.
3) It's a suburban white girl.

Post a video of a S. American woman/man/child fleeing from poverty/death, as you claim, climbing a hand fashioned loop rope on a 30' tall steel wall, with no safety support. You are a damn idiot if you think the 2 are equal.

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A little trickier to climb, but nowhere near the impossible task you make it out to be. Especially not with a wall for stability and someone holding the bottom of the rope.

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It's not secure. You have Juan on the bottom holding that rope. So let's say you get the 2nd rope over, do you leave the bottom unsecured, or do you have Juan pull the rope through the slats? If so, you are now trying to climb down a rope, finding footholds, while your rope is secured in the wrong direction away from you. Either that, or you are climbing down an unsecured rope. Is it impossible? No. Is it difficult, especially for the person who will have to do this? Yes.

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Who have you talked to that thinks a wall is no better than a wide open border? No one.

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There are several on this board, mostly of the libtard persuasion. I'd have to search back a couple weeks to when they were emphatically saying it wouldn't work. I don't know the names off the top of my head.

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If you're talking about me specifically,

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I'm not. We are having a discussion about logistics.

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. With the likes of you and him in support of a wall, I'm finding it hard to get on board that idiot train.

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I'm not trying to sway you. Just hoping you understand how silly your idea sounds.