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Posted on 1/4/19 at 3:25 pm to BugAC
quote:
Really? You know this for certain. Which points and where are these rocks. I will grant you there may be some within miles of the border, but it's not like all areas of the border are parallel to a mountain range or rock formation.
It doesnt have to be parallel to a mountain range or rock formation to have rocks next to it. I can't speak to the border in New Mexico, Arizona, or California, but I've been near the border in West Texas and there's large pieces of limestone everywhere.
quote:
Ok, let's go with this. How do you get down when you are at the top? The walls pictures, don't have a ledge to stand on. So do you assume Juan will be carrying another rope as well, tie off to the top (while still being on the first rope) then swing over to the other side, to the second rope? That's going to be some pretty difficult maneuvering to try to swing over one leg, find the foot hole on the 2nd unsecured rope, then swing over another foot. Keep in mind, it looks as though that beam is a few feet from the top, so you will have to reach down for the rope, then hopefully not slip while trying to put a foot hold in that second rope.
Point being, your "easy wall climb" is rather hazardous considering the penalty for falling from the top of that rope is serious injury or death. In other words, your idea is idiotic. You average South American will not think of your idea, nor is fit enough to perform such a feat.
I think you are vastly underestimating the will and ingenuity of some of these people. Necessity is the mother of invention, and these people will find a way to cross the wall.
Now, with that said, I don't think the wall needs to be 100% effective to be valuable and I think it will vastly reduce the number of crossings. But, I recognize that people will still find ways to get over it.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 4:14 pm to BugAC
quote:Yes, I am 100% certain that there are rocks along the border.
Really? You know this for certain.
quote:Unfortunately, I do not have a precise mental map of the entire length of the border. You might just have to trust me that there are, in fact, rocks along the border.
Which points and where are these rocks.
quote:And within feet.
I will grant you there may be some within miles of the border
quote:All areas? Of course not. But, you know, if you ever find yourself traveling a thousand miles knowing you're going to need a rock at the end, I'm sure you could plot a course that takes you to a place with some rocks.
but it's not like all areas of the border are parallel to a mountain range or rock formation.
Is everything this challenging for you?
quote:Well frick me, I guess if the first place I reach at the border doesn't have anything to hold down a rope then I'm just fricked, right?
So what happens if you don't have a rock? What do you use, Juan?
How someone with your lack of problem solving skills and lack of determination manages to make it through life is beyond me.
quote:You severely underestimate the ingenuity and ability of a person whose life depends on accomplishing something.
I'm not discussing someone's will, i'm discussing physical ability. Majority of immigrants can't scale this wall
quote:
even with your fantastical accessory kit.
Rope and fishing line! What a fantasy world I live in where rope and fishing line exist! Hell, climbing rope is so light you could probably just tie it to a spear made from a stick and throw it over. quote:OK, let's go with the assumption that it's dangerous going over the top. I know it's yet another problem to solve, but I think we can get through it together. I think you've agreed that it's pretty simple to get a rope over the wall, and that the rope is light enough to carry a lot of it. So now let's try to bring scaling the wall up to OSHA standards. You tie two 40' pieces of rope around your waste or chest (I won't even try to convince you that safety harnesses are available). You throw one rope over the wall, and leave the other on your side. As you climb up, someone holds your up-side rope tight in case you slip. As you climb over the top, he holds your other safety rope tight. So it takes a 3 person crew to do it more safely... one to climb, one to hold the climbing rope, and one to hold the safety ropes.
Ok, let's go with this. How do you get down when you are at the top? The walls pictures, don't have a ledge to stand on. So do you assume Juan will be carrying another rope as well, tie off to the top (while still being on the first rope) then swing over to the other side, to the second rope? That's going to be some pretty difficult maneuvering to try to swing over one leg, find the foot hole on the 2nd unsecured rope, then swing over another foot. Keep in mind, it looks as though that beam is a few feet from the top, so you will have to reach down for the rope, then hopefully not slip while trying to put a foot hold in that second rope.
Point being, your "easy wall climb" is rather hazardous considering the penalty for falling from the top of that rope is serious injury or death. In other words, your idea is idiotic. You average South American will not think of your idea, nor is fit enough to perform such a feat.
Assuming your wall photo is accurate.
quote:
And an educated guess would say that a difficult and life threatening barrier would reduce those numbers dramatically. Couple that with strictly enforcing our current immigration laws, and tightening them up, meanwhile heavily penalizing sanctuary cities should slow that illegal wave to a drip. Either that or elect a Democrat as POTUS, and all the jobs will leave again and no one will want to come here.
Look, there is no doubt that we could build a wall and do other things to forcefully keep most illegals out, but IMO it's just a crude and militant method, and in general I am against turning everything into a "war". I just think there are better ways to solve the problem.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 4:25 pm to BugAC
quote:I addressed that right after the link.
1) That's not a loop rope
quote:If you only have 2 guys, then the bottom of the rope being climbed/descended is always unsecured, while the bottom of the opposite side is always secured. You really can't frick it up, the man on the ground is just providing counterweight, and he can do it both up and down because he has access to both ends of the rope.
It's not secure. You have Juan on the bottom holding that rope. So let's say you get the 2nd rope over, do you leave the bottom unsecured, or do you have Juan pull the rope through the slats? If so, you are now trying to climb down a rope, finding footholds, while your rope is secured in the wrong direction away from you. Either that, or you are climbing down an unsecured rope.
quote:No, it's not the easiest thing in the world, but it's not the hardest, either. It's just an example of a method of scaling a slat wall with the cheapest and lightest materials possible. If you have time to plan, you can make it fancier, easier, safer, etc.
Is it impossible? No. Is it difficult, especially for the person who will have to do this? Yes.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 4:26 pm to Korkstand
Not sure how sick women and children are going to be able to scale and safely climb down the wall.
Armies of young men, sure, but we've been told that's not what is crossing.
Armies of young men, sure, but we've been told that's not what is crossing.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 4:28 pm to russellvillehog
No, rope and hooks and bows and arrows are 21st century inventions. Now all walls are obsolete.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 4:37 pm to Korkstand
quote:SOP here.
What I am arguing against is the idiot OP who couldn't imagine a method of getting up and down a wall without throwing babies off the top. It's just ridiculous, and it's ridiculously easy to get up and down the other side safely.
OP says something stupid. Someone refutes said stupidity. Dozens of the OP’s ideological brethren spend ten pages insisting that the second poster respond to peripheral issues NOT raised by the OP or by the initial response.
The tribe then declares victory.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 4:50 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Korkstand
Lots of idiots underestimating how tall 3-5 stories is ITT, especially the above poster with his rope method. The average man would have a very hard time scaling a 3-story rope, next time you see a building that tall stand under it and look up. Its about as tall as your average long-reach telephone pole to the very top. Not the poles inside the city, the ones that make up power lines that span a long distance.
Kids and women won't be able to do it, which already cuts down on illegal crossers exponentially. A percentage of the men won't be able to either, unless they're in fairly decent shape. This cuts down on even more by itself.
Large rocks and boulders are cleared from roughly 100ft around any fence or wall just for this reason, they already do this. That means it would require at least one other large male to anchor the rope no matter what.
That STILL means a 30ft or larger ladder would be required. Anyone that thinks lugging one of these around is an easy feat has never used one. You can't just drive up to the border without being detected - there's a reason they don't just drive up and past it now.
The fact of the matter is that the wall will not be 100% effective, but it'll be a hell of a lot more effective than what we have now. It'll also require a lot less border patrol agents to patrol and secure, meaning we could cut down on the manpower required forever - which eventually pays for the wall itself.
There's a reason the liberals have to bend and twist to make arguments against the wall, and that's because it just makes sense. They've even gone as far as calling the wall "immoral" now, which makes no sense. It's clear you're reaching with methods like using a bow and arrow to shoot over fishing line and basically having any crosser require the skills of a highly-trained everyday Marine.
The argument against the wall continues to get more and more desperate; its obvious to anyone with any sort of objectivity.
Posted on 1/4/19 at 6:07 pm to RazorBroncs
quote:
Lots of idiots underestimating how tall 3-5 stories is ITT, especially the above poster with his rope method.
I've spent 20 years working in a building that is 30 feet tall, and I've spent quite a bit of time on top of it. I know exactly how tall 30 feet is.
quote:It's not exactly a set of stairs, but with rungs or loops to grab and stand in, I wouldn't call it "very hard" for the average man.
The average man would have a very hard time scaling a 3-story rope
quote:It's amazing what people can do when they put their mind to it.
Kids and women won't be able to do it
quote:
The fact of the matter is that the wall will not be 100% effective, but it'll be a hell of a lot more effective than what we have now. It'll also require a lot less border patrol agents to patrol and secure, meaning we could cut down on the manpower required forever - which eventually pays for the wall itself.
That assumes we don't just have to shift the manpower to the coasts, which is a likely outcome, and a possibly more expensive one.
quote:To be honest, I really don't give two shits whether we build a wall or not. In terms of the budget, $5 billion is an inconsequential amount, for an inconsequential wall. $5 billion will only pay for about 100 miles of "steel slats", plus upgrades to about 100 miles of existing fencing. If that'll make some people feel more secure, then let them have their security blanket.
The argument against the wall continues to get more and more desperate; its obvious to anyone with any sort of objectivity.
I will look forward to the rationale behind each additional billion it ends up costing to actually make the border less passable. Then I will look forward to the excuses for why border patrol payroll and other ongoing costs will never come down and pay for it.
Posted on 1/5/19 at 5:14 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I don't know, do you?
Logic dictates that a lot more will be successful illegally entering the country if it does not have a physical barrier. But, then again, logic is not something the open border proponents have ever been accused of using.
Posted on 1/5/19 at 7:24 pm to RazorBroncs
quote:
The fact of the matter is that the wall will not be 100% effective, but it'll be a hell of a lot more effective than what we have now. It'll also require a lot less border patrol agents to patrol and secure, meaning we could cut down on the manpower required forever - which eventually pays for the wall itself.
There's a reason the liberals have to bend and twist to make arguments against the wall, and that's because it just makes sense. They've even gone as far as calling the wall "immoral" now, which makes no sense. It's clear you're reaching with methods like using a bow and arrow to shoot over fishing line and basically having any crosser require the skills of a highly-trained everyday Marine.
The argument against the wall continues to get more and more desperate; its obvious to anyone with any sort of objectivity.
This.
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