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re: Trump Threatens to Ignore NATO Treaty if Unhappy with Member Dues. Thoughts?
Posted on 2/11/24 at 9:50 am to RFK
Posted on 2/11/24 at 9:50 am to RFK
NATO is bullshite. It was a good idea initially, but has served it's purpose. America has weaponized NATO same as it has the American dollar with terrible results, pushing the international community away from us and has us on the brink of WW3.
NATO countries have taken advantage of America for too long for funding NATO.
Dump NATO and the UN.
NATO countries have taken advantage of America for too long for funding NATO.
Dump NATO and the UN.
0
Posted on 2/11/24 at 9:51 am to RFK
This post was edited on 4/5/24 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 9:55 am to RFK
What year is it? lol, is it 1950? I think it’s time to move on from NATO.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 9:56 am to RFK
To Hell with the freeloaders. Our tax dollars have paid their way for far too long.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 10:01 am to RFK
This is a MUTUAL defense treaty. Let's say Spain decides it is too far away from the Russian border to be concerned, so it decides to spend one half of a percent of its GDP on defense, instead of the required 2%. In this case, Spain has abrogated the agreement and other countries within the treaty are no longer obligated to defend Spain.
On the other hand, if countries see that no matter how little you spend, then you will be taken care of, then they will get by on the bare minimum.
Trump is right - you don't have to uphold your half of the agreement if the other party or parties do not hold up their half. With statements like this - he's making the alliance stronger, by letting EVERY country know they must live up to their obligation or face the consequences.
GOOD FOR TRMUMP. He says the hard things that need to be said - and he back them up too.
On the other hand, if countries see that no matter how little you spend, then you will be taken care of, then they will get by on the bare minimum.
Trump is right - you don't have to uphold your half of the agreement if the other party or parties do not hold up their half. With statements like this - he's making the alliance stronger, by letting EVERY country know they must live up to their obligation or face the consequences.
GOOD FOR TRMUMP. He says the hard things that need to be said - and he back them up too.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 10:03 am
Posted on 2/11/24 at 10:08 am to RFK
quote:
Collective self defense under Article V is the core of the NATO — that an attack on one member nation is an attack on all the nations in the alliance.
NATO is an insurance policy for feckless European nations. What happens if you don’t pay your insurance premiums? Policy cancelled. Period.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 10:17 am to RFK
NATO was a bad idea from the outset.
We’d do well to listen to Washington on foreign policy. Especially regarding the Europeans.
We’d do well to listen to Washington on foreign policy. Especially regarding the Europeans.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:26 pm to 632627
quote:
If the accounting of his statements that I've read are accurate, the only thing id take issue with, and I think is incredibly stupid to say, is that he welcomes Russia to attack any underpaying member.
Why?
Why defend them if they aren’t covering their contracted responsibilities?
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:28 pm to RFK
E.T.T.D
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:32 pm to RFK
quote:
Yes. According to Trump he said “I would tell Russia to do whatever the hell they want to you” if that country didn’t pay as much as Trump likes. How do you interpret that? It seems a pretty blatant invitation for Russia to attack a NATO ally which is very concerning for 2 reasons: 1) Trump is either single-handedly disbanding treaties, or 2) he doesn’t understand how NATO work. I assume it’s a blend of the two.
IIRC Germany was one of the countries who Trump has to basically embarrass to get them to spend their share on defense. His point was valid, why are we taking on responsibility for protecting you when you aren’t taking responsibility?
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:34 pm to LSUnation78
quote:
My thoughts are that hes trying to recapture some of his highlights from term 1. This statement makes more sense 5 years ago.
Correct, this was earlier in his Presidency.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:35 pm to RFK
quote:
RFK
You're either a troll or just a bitch
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:36 pm to 632627
quote:
I don't take major issue with him saying this in private to another nation's president years ago. I take issue for being dumb enough to repeat it at a rally.
Why? Letting voters know he doesn’t want us to be walked on by other countries?
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:41 pm to RFK
quote:
quote:
“NATO was busted until I came along,” Trump said at a rally in Conway, South Carolina. “I said, ‘Everybody’s gonna pay.’ They said, ‘Well, if we don’t pay, are you still going to protect us?’ I said, ‘Absolutely not.’ They couldn’t believe the answer.”
quote:
Trump said “one of the presidents of a big country” at one point asked him whether the US would still defend the country if they were invaded by Russia even if they “don’t pay.”
quote:
“No, I would not protect you,” Trump recalled telling that president. “In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.”
Collective self defense under Article V is the core of the NATO — that an attack on one member nation is an attack on all the nations in the alliance.
Trump has long complained about the amount other countries in NATO spend on defense compared with the United States and has repeatedly threatened to withdraw the US from NATO.
These surprising comments this weekend are now his most direct indication he does not intend to defend NATO allies from Russian attack if he is reelected.
I personally think it’s insanity to be feckless with NATO and claim you’ll arbitrarily abide by one of our longest treaties and the alliance that defeated communism and won the Cold War.
This recklessness degrades trust from our allies and emboldens our enemies.
This is a perfect example of why people with your intellectual acuity should NEVER have any authority involving foreign affairs (among many other things).
Trump's first term showed us the importance of strength of conviction when dealing with other govts.
As Teddy Roosevelt so aptly put it:
Speak softly, but carry a big stick.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:47 pm to RFK
NATO has outlived it's usefulness; close the overwhelming majority of bases in EU
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:57 pm to RFK
quote:
I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.
This is the part that should concern people. Trump is going to encourage Putin to invade a NATO country.
Moronic statement that MAGAns won't criticize.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:58 pm to Don Quixote
quote:
NATO has outlived it's usefulness
This statement always makes me chuckle. All member nations are more pro-alliance than ever, but a subset of the American right is convinced that it serves no purpose and has no value.
Not even Trump believes that. He’s just telling them to meet their obligations. There is enormous value in the inter-operability etc that NATO provides in a more efficient way than if we had to just conduct bilateral agreements with NATO’s member states.
It needs fixing in a number of ways, especially in the domestic spending requirements, but the United States does in fact benefit from NATO membership.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:58 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:
Trump is going to encourage Putin to invade a NATO country
How did you dream up this stupid statement?
Posted on 2/11/24 at 12:59 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:
Trump is going to encourage Putin to invade a NATO country.
How? And which one?
Posted on 2/11/24 at 1:08 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
NATO should be disbanded.
I think NATO is gaining relevance with a rising China. It’s definitely in their calculus when it comes to the possibility of them engaging the US in the SCS.
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