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Message
Electric Cars Are An Expensive Scam
Posted on 7/1/23 at 7:23 am
Posted on 7/1/23 at 7:23 am
Link to article
In March, Joe Biden signed an executive order to “set a target” for half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 to be zero-emission. California claims it is banning combustion engines in all new cars in about 10 years. So carmakers adopt business models to deal with these distorted incentives and contrived theoretical markets of the future.
In today’s real-world economy, though, Ford announced this week that it was firing at least 1,000 employees — many of them white-collar workers on the EV side. Ford projects it’s going to lose $3 billion on electric vehicles in 2023, bringing its EV losses to $5.1 billion over two years. In 2021, Ford reportedly lost $34,000 on every EV it made. This year it was losing more than $58,000 on every EV. In a normal world, Ford would be dramatically scaling back EV production, not expanding it. Remember that next time we need to bail out Detroit.
In the real world, there is Lordstown. In 2019, after GM — which also loses money on every EV sold — shut down a plant in Lordstown, Ohio, then-President Donald Trump made a big deal of publicly pressuring the auto giant to rectify the situation. So CEO Mary Barra lent Lordstown Motors, a new EV outfit, $40 million to retrofit the plant. Ohio also gave the company another $60 million.
You may remember the widespread glowing coverage of Lordstown. After Joe Biden signed his “Buy American” executive order, promising to replace the entire U.S. federal fleet with EVs, Lordstown’s stock shot up.
By the start of this year, Lordstown had manufactured 31 vehicles total. Six had been sold to actual consumers. (But to be fair, five would be recalled — following a recall of 19.) The stock was trading at barely a dollar. Tech-funding giant Foxconn was pulling its $170 million. And this week the company filed for bankruptcy.
Climate alarmists might believe EVs are necessary to save the planet. That’s fine. Using their standard, however, a bike is an innovation. Because even on their terms, the usefulness of EVs is highly debatable. Most of the energy that powers them is derived from fossil fuels. The manufacturing of an EV has a negligible positive benefit for the environment, if any.
And the fact is that if EVs were more efficient and saved us money, as enviros and politicians claim, consumers wouldn’t have to be compelled into using them and companies wouldn’t have to be bribed into producing them
In March, Joe Biden signed an executive order to “set a target” for half of all new vehicles sold in 2030 to be zero-emission. California claims it is banning combustion engines in all new cars in about 10 years. So carmakers adopt business models to deal with these distorted incentives and contrived theoretical markets of the future.
In today’s real-world economy, though, Ford announced this week that it was firing at least 1,000 employees — many of them white-collar workers on the EV side. Ford projects it’s going to lose $3 billion on electric vehicles in 2023, bringing its EV losses to $5.1 billion over two years. In 2021, Ford reportedly lost $34,000 on every EV it made. This year it was losing more than $58,000 on every EV. In a normal world, Ford would be dramatically scaling back EV production, not expanding it. Remember that next time we need to bail out Detroit.
In the real world, there is Lordstown. In 2019, after GM — which also loses money on every EV sold — shut down a plant in Lordstown, Ohio, then-President Donald Trump made a big deal of publicly pressuring the auto giant to rectify the situation. So CEO Mary Barra lent Lordstown Motors, a new EV outfit, $40 million to retrofit the plant. Ohio also gave the company another $60 million.
You may remember the widespread glowing coverage of Lordstown. After Joe Biden signed his “Buy American” executive order, promising to replace the entire U.S. federal fleet with EVs, Lordstown’s stock shot up.
By the start of this year, Lordstown had manufactured 31 vehicles total. Six had been sold to actual consumers. (But to be fair, five would be recalled — following a recall of 19.) The stock was trading at barely a dollar. Tech-funding giant Foxconn was pulling its $170 million. And this week the company filed for bankruptcy.
Climate alarmists might believe EVs are necessary to save the planet. That’s fine. Using their standard, however, a bike is an innovation. Because even on their terms, the usefulness of EVs is highly debatable. Most of the energy that powers them is derived from fossil fuels. The manufacturing of an EV has a negligible positive benefit for the environment, if any.
And the fact is that if EVs were more efficient and saved us money, as enviros and politicians claim, consumers wouldn’t have to be compelled into using them and companies wouldn’t have to be bribed into producing them
Posted on 7/1/23 at 7:57 am to Placekicker
quote:
Ford projects it’s going to lose $3 billion on electric vehicles in 2023, bringing its EV losses to $5.1 billion over two years. In 2021, Ford reportedly lost $34,000 on every EV it made.
I wonder why? Is it because they can't sell what they build, or are they selling at a loss?
quote:
the usefulness of EVs is highly debatable. Most of the energy that powers them is derived from fossil fuels. The manufacturing of an EV has a negligible positive benefit for the environment, if any.
I don't doubt this. Electricity is more than that stuff you get out of white receptacles on your wall.
I have a 2023 Ford Lightning. It cost a lot for a Lariat trim. I can't imagine what it would cost if they are under-charging for the vehicle. I really like my Lightning. It serves my intended purpose well. My monthly electricity costs have risen about 150 bucks. But my gasoline costs have dropped through the floor. And my Lightning is now my wife's favorite car.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:04 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
And my Lightning is now my wife's favorite car.
Does your wife’s boyfriend still drive that jacked up diesel?
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:12 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote::lol: :lol:
I have a 2023 Ford Lightning.
what did you pay for that POS 70k,90k? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:18 am to Placekicker
Anything GREEN is a scam. China and India just laugh at us.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:20 am to GoldenGuy
quote:
Does your wife’s boyfriend still drive that jacked up diesel?
Lol Texas dildo, I won’t even add the A&M part…….you’re not worthy of it!
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:23 am to Placekicker
So we will bailing out the car companies again.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:24 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
I have a 2023 Ford Lightning. It cost a lot for a Lariat trim. I can't imagine what it would cost if they are under-charging for the vehicle. I really like my Lightning. It serves my intended purpose well. My monthly electricity costs have risen about 150 bucks. But my gasoline costs have dropped through the floor. And my Lightning is now my wife's favorite car.
So your electric bill rose and your gas bill went down so you save maybe a few bucks and are now limited on where you can fuel up the ugliest ford f150 ever made. Sounds like you hand cuffed yourself just like they want you to be
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:28 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
I wonder why? Is it because they can't sell what they build, or are they selling at a loss?
Yes they are selling at a loss because there would be almost zero demand for an EV if they sold them at a profitable price point.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:28 am to burke985
quote:ask what his car note is on the Lighting, that's where you see all the savings!
So your electric bill rose and your gas bill went down so you save maybe a few bucks and are now limited on where you can fuel up the ugliest ford f150 ever made. Sounds like you hand cuffed yourself just like they want you to be
This post was edited on 7/1/23 at 8:29 am
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:40 am to ninthward
quote:
ask what his car note is on the Lighting, that's where you see all the savings!
You guys crack me up. Only about 1 out of 10 F150 owners use it as a truck. Most of you use it as an ornament, just like your cowboy boots. So if you are concerned about savings, don’t get an F150. Buy some economy car.
People who buy EVs are doing it because they want to, just like people who buy F150s. I’m not going to examine their reasons for doing it, because they are better arbiters of what they like than I am.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:46 am to Placekicker
China is NOT an oil producer so China doesn’t get rich off of gas powered cars.
China owns 80% of the World’s lithium so China makes huge profits off of electric cars.
China pays our politicians and China wants electric so therefore the American Government passed laws and regulations to push electric.
American politicians do what they are paid to do and China is doing the paying.
China owns 80% of the World’s lithium so China makes huge profits off of electric cars.
China pays our politicians and China wants electric so therefore the American Government passed laws and regulations to push electric.
American politicians do what they are paid to do and China is doing the paying.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 8:51 am to burke985
quote:
So your electric bill rose and your gas bill went down so you save maybe a few bucks and are now limited on where you can fuel up the ugliest ford f150 ever made. Sounds like you hand cuffed yourself just like they want you to be
It’s a lot easier than that. I charge in my garage at night so no need to charge or stop at gas stations. Electric bill went up $60 to $80 per month vs the $300 to $350 a month in gas. Also no longer have to pay for oil changes every three months that were $100 for synthetic.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 9:03 am to ninthward
quote:
ask what his car note is on the Lighting, that's where you see all the savings!
I hate to disappoint so I'll come clean. In February 2022 I bought a turbocharged Acura MDX Type S with cash. 80 plus thousand plunked down on the table in two checks. Bam! They wouldn't take a single check. In January 2023, I plunked down 80 plus thousand in cash on the Lightning. They took a single check. I don't have no stinkin' car note. I am a man of means. King of the road!
Posted on 7/1/23 at 9:08 am to Diamondawg
quote:
Anything GREEN is a scam. China and India just laugh at us.
Thing is, none of it has to be. Who doesn't want clean air, water, etc.? maybe a few high-level executives who can make money off spoiling something but not rank and file anybody
The problem is pushing grossly impractical shite with the government rather than letting it flow with the market.
Buy whatever car you want but let go of the idea that 150 million people will have EVs within 20 years in the US.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 9:12 am to Placekicker
quote:
The manufacturing of an EV has a negligible positive impact for the environment, if any
Wrong. I know the above statement is a popular incantation for right-wing talk show ignorami, but the reality is far different.
You're talking currently about hundreds of millions of greenhouse-gas generating internal-combustion engines EVERY DAY on American roadways. Replacing the current polluting fleet with electrics will drastically reduce the fouling of the air with carbon gases, and reduce the currently unsustainable rate of planetary heating.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 9:55 am to tarzana
Retardzana
Is your hair pink or electric blue?
Is your hair pink or electric blue?
This post was edited on 7/1/23 at 9:56 am
Posted on 7/1/23 at 10:12 am to Placekicker
Selling at a loss is part of the barriers to entry and most knew this going into the game. Problem is the economies of scale still haven’t caught up despite the huge increase in demand during, and immediately post, Covid. Now that the elasticity of the market is contracting, how will manufacturers profit? I’d be willing to wager a bet come 2035 when all vehicles are manufactured are supposed to be EV you’ll see a monumental price increase making the $100k ICE pick-up seem like a cheap alternative.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 10:12 am to Placekicker
Remove government subsidies from EV’s and biofuel and it no longer exists. The free market knows it’s all full of crap. It’s a government scam.
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