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Message
re: Unless Coach O explodes... It's Herman, Jimbo, then CEO
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:35 pm to GeauxTigerTM
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:35 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Don't disagree...I'm just arguing that doing that as an interim is not, in my opinion, the same thing as doing it as the head guy form day one of your own program. Fundamentally, I think we're talking apples and oranges.
In both cases, Orgeron will have had the luxury of taking over programs and being able to swing for the fences with essentially no pressure...unless you consider the potential that he could win the job as pressure. I think you behave differently when that's your role versus when it's not...and unfortunately, the only time he's not been the interim was as the HC at OM.
It isn't quite the same thing as doing it as an interim but it isn't that different. He would have done everything the head man has to do except recruit and hire a competent staff. I don't think anyone has any reservations about his abilities as a recruiter so you are really talking about not hiring him based solely on your guess that he can't competently hire a staff.
1
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:39 pm to thelawnwranglers
quote:
O is the answer
In the multiple choice question of who should be LSU's next Coach, O is always the answer.. #AllinforO
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:40 pm to glaucon
quote:or handle coaches and players on a day to day basis. Or handle the numerous types of adversity that will come his way. how does he react when he loses a star player to injury? or when half of his defense decides to go pro after their junior year? or when a coordinator leaves because the Administration presents them with stupid clauses in their contracts? Or when he loses a close game because of a mistake he personally made during the game? Or when their is some division in the lockerroom?
so you are really talking about not hiring him based solely on your guess that he can't competently hire a staff.
Most likely, he won't have to handle anything close to what a normal head coach would day to day. Heck, he's spending so much time politicking for the full-time job that i'm surprised he gets any credit at all for our performance against Missouri.
There are lots of factors that you are minimizing to "recruit and hire assistants". And CEO hasn't proven he can do any of those things well. Other coaches have already proven such. Some at multiple schools.
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:43 pm to hashtag
quote:
how does he react when he loses a star player to injury?
Oh, you mean like fournette?
I think he'd probably put up 600+ yards of total offense
quote:
he's spending so much time politicking for the full-time job
Yea man, those two minute interview segments are fricking brutal... how the heck did he even find time to get dressed for the game???
I'm not 100% certain that CEO is the man for the job but your points are absolutely fricking retarded
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:48 pm to UpToPar
quote:
I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but it's looking more and more as though he owes much of his success to Winston
Winston was his QB for 2 years 2013-2014. In 2012 they won 12 games including ACC champ game and the Orange bowl. He has won 10 or more games in 5 of his 6 seasons.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:55 pm to hashtag
quote:As Hangover mentioned, he passed this first test pretty well.
. how does he react when he loses a star player to injury?
quote:He is a recruiter at heart. I believe the bench will always be full of capable guys ready to play.
or when half of his defense decides to go pro after their junior year?
quote:He probably has quite a few coaching connections considering it is his life's work.
or when a coordinator leaves because the Administration presents them with stupid clauses in their contracts?
quote:He already said they will make mistakes, but they will make them at full speed and correct them at full speed.
Or when he loses a close game because of a mistake he personally made during the game?
quote:"One team, one heartbeat". Sure it's just a phrase, but it's hard to argue with what we saw Saturday. And I'm pretty sure he isn't one to take much bullshite.
Or when their is some division in the lockerroom?
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:59 pm to Random LSU Hero
quote:
. Not many coaches are going to want to jump in bed with Arkansas, Bama, Ole Miss, aTm and Auburn when Texas is the alternate option
I've said it once and I'll keep saying it every time i read this type of comment:
If a coach is too scared to coach in the SEC it's best he not be at LSU. I'm not trying to say you are wrong about Herman, btw. I'm just saying if that's his logic then he wouldn't have survived here anyway.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:02 pm to Korkstand
quote:
One team, one heartbeat". Sure it's just a phrase, but it's hard to argue with what we saw Saturday. And I'm pretty sure he isn't one to take much bullshite
I can't think of anyone that's a better fit for LSU right now than coach O and if he makes a decent showing the job should be his.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:06 pm to lsufan1971
quote:They beat a grand total of 2 ranked teams that year, counting N. Illinois who, let's face it, should NOT have been in the Orange Bowl (their signature win was against Kent fricking State, in OT). Their other win against a ranked team was Clemson, who failed to win a game against a ranked team during the regular season. And that ACC champ game was against a 6-6 GT who also failed to beat a ranked team all season, and the game was close. They also struggled - HARD - against a 6-6 VT team that - say it with me - failed to beat a ranked team all year.
In 2012 they won 12 games including ACC champ game and the Orange bowl
Jimbo is not a great coach.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:19 pm to Korkstand
quote:
They beat a grand total of 2 ranked teams that year, counting N. Illinois who, let's face it, should NOT have been in the Orange Bowl (their signature win was against Kent fricking State, in OT). Their other win against a ranked team was Clemson, who failed to win a game against a ranked team during the regular season. And that ACC champ game was against a 6-6 GT who also failed to beat a ranked team all season, and the game was close. They also struggled - HARD - against a 6-6 VT team that - say it with me - failed to beat a ranked team all year.
This. All of this.
10 wins in the ACC should be a minimum.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:21 pm to Korkstand
quote:
They beat a grand total of 2 ranked teams that year, counting N. Illinois who, let's face it, should NOT have been in the Orange Bowl (their signature win was against Kent fricking State, in OT). Their other win against a ranked team was Clemson, who failed to win a game against a ranked team during the regular season. And that ACC champ game was against a 6-6 GT who also failed to beat a ranked team all season, and the game was close. They also struggled - HARD - against a 6-6 VT team that - say it with me - failed to beat a ranked team all year.
But what we all really want to know is did he get shut out by a team coming off a 17-game conference losing streak?
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:33 pm to glaucon
quote:
You do it twice, you are not the coach that went 10-27 at Ole Miss a decade ago.
Do what twice? Have a winning percentage above .500 in a given season?
Here's what USC did with Orgeron as the interim head coach -
Wins
Arizona (8-5)
Utah (5-7)
Oregon State (7-6)
California (1-11)
Stanford (11-3)
Colorado (4-8)
Lossess
Notre Dame (9-4)
UCLA (10-3)
So USC played three teams that ultimately lost four games or fewer...and he lost to two of them.
Other than Stanford, not one team USC beat with Ed at the helm finished with fewer than five losses.
The simple fact is that Ed is being considered because he's a charismatic Cajun that loves Louisiana. And that's the only reason.
No other coach on this staff would have the opportunity to become the permanent head coach of the program if they were promoted to the interim position in place of Orgeron.
No other prominent power 5 program would hire a guy with a losing record as a head coach. Not even Syracuse gave Orgeron a chance for their head coaching vacancy last year, even after Ed publicly stated that he would "very much" be interested in the position.
Imagine if Alabama hired Burton Burns to be their head coach after Saban retires. Or if Ohio State gave Luke Fickell the head coaching position if Urban stepped down. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
This would be an embarrassing hire for the program.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:35 pm to Random LSU Hero
I love Coach O as a person, and love his energy. but that isnt what makes great coaches. If he truly delegates and hires strong assistants, it could work. If he could keep a guy like Austin Thomas around, it could work.
Things I like about Coach O
-great energy
-recruiting
- has shown some progressiveness & seems to have his own ideas(compared to Miles). Ie bringing old players back, dialing down practice time, throwing players like Gage in that he may have felt deserved a chance.
-if he is a true delegator to his assistants, that is a good thing. I think he must keep a guy like Austin Thomas around
Things i worry about
-Inexperience
-game planning
-sanctions that seemed to follow his time at Miami, USC & Ole Miss(pending).
-executive decision making, esp emotional vs sensible
-hiring good ole baws(ie Pete Jenkins). Is he going to try & reward old friends as opposed to best man for job?
Things I like about Coach O
-great energy
-recruiting
- has shown some progressiveness & seems to have his own ideas(compared to Miles). Ie bringing old players back, dialing down practice time, throwing players like Gage in that he may have felt deserved a chance.
-if he is a true delegator to his assistants, that is a good thing. I think he must keep a guy like Austin Thomas around
Things i worry about
-Inexperience
-game planning
-sanctions that seemed to follow his time at Miami, USC & Ole Miss(pending).
-executive decision making, esp emotional vs sensible
-hiring good ole baws(ie Pete Jenkins). Is he going to try & reward old friends as opposed to best man for job?
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:44 pm to Cs
quote:That sounds an awful lot like the pattern Jimbo has at FSU.
So USC played three teams that ultimately lost four games or fewer...and he lost to two of them.
Other than Stanford, not one team USC beat with Ed at the helm finished with fewer than five losses.
Difference is, USC under O handily beat the teams they were supposed to beat, whereas Jimbo tends to struggle against mediocre teams.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:47 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
I think he means a 10 game winning streak.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:49 pm to UpToPar
quote:every national champion winner has benefited from great players...and Winston was just part of a good team.
it's looking more and more as though he owes much of his success to Winston.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:51 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
-hiring good ole baws(ie Pete Jenkins). Is he going to try & reward old friends as opposed to best man for job?
If he hires more coaches that are of Pete Jenkins caliber, he would build something pretty special.
But I think he would hire the best coaches he could get. Defensively, we are set as long as we can get Aranda to stick around.
I think he would try to get a big time OC that has a reputation of developing QBs.
This is all assuming we can't get Fisher or Herman or he goes undefeated the rest of the way. He wouldn't be that expensive and that'd leave more money for high end coaches.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:55 pm to Chicken
quote:
every national champion winner has benefited from great players...and Winston was just part of a good team.
Sure, the rest of that team was extremely talented. But, I think Jimbo, as a coach, is somewhere between what he was with Winston and what he was without Winston, which makes him somewhere around a 10 win coach IN THE ACC.
What's that translate to when he faces 3-4 teams with equal or better talent per year rather than 1-2?
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 10/4/16 at 2:03 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Jimbo tends to struggle against mediocre teams.
You keep dissecting their struggles, yet keep conveniently ignoring 2013 when their average margin of victory was 42 points and no one got within 2 touchdowns of them until the NCG.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 2:07 pm to Korkstand
quote:
That sounds an awful lot like the pattern Jimbo has at FSU.
So what's the argument?
That we should ignore Orgeron's abysmal failures at Ole Miss, because it was "10 years ago", and view his 6-2 interim record at USC as a superior accomplishment to Jimbo's 71-16 record at Florida State?
I'll keep making this point - no other coach on this staff would be given the opportunity to win the permanent head coaching job if they were promoted to the interim position, regardless of the results they produced. Not Peveto. Not Cameron. Not Raymond. Not Ensmniger.
But O is given the interim position, and suddenly, this turns into an "audition". And the reason for that is completely separate from any perceived or actual competency he has as a head coach.
And that's a problem.
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 2:12 pm
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