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re: Unless Coach O explodes... It's Herman, Jimbo, then CEO
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:36 am to Korkstand
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:36 am to Korkstand
quote:Coach Oregeron is not running a program. He's coaching 9 games. There is a MASSSSSSSSSSIVE difference between being an interim coach and running a program.
I am looking at their entire body of work, and a crucial part of this examination is the trend. Orgeron looks to have improved remarkably, while Jimbo seems to be regressing.
3
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:37 am to glaucon
quote:
The problem with your teacher analogy is that O wouldn't be the cool substitute that everyone likes. He would be Jaime fricking Escalante with the class passing the AP calculas test when the class was collectively getting a D at the end of the first quarter of the year.
Doesn't change my overall point. You can hear it in the player's tone, and you can see it clearly in the fan reaction. While there have been a handful of tweaks, what we're seeing is mostly emotional stuff. Former players walking down the hill, visors during games, etc.
None of that is the same thing as running the program successfully long term. Doesn't mean he could not, just that what he's doing now is not really the same skill set needed for the other. And we'll literally never know how he'll be at that job without either taking into consideration the only time he's ever had that job, or simply hiring him and hoping it works out while he's on the job training at LSU.
Personally, that seems terrifying to me.
I'm not saying I'd oppose hiring Orgeron AFTER he's shown he can run a program successfully over a few years. Just that him doing well over 2/3 of a season in two places as the interim is not, in my opinion, the same thing as running a program.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:37 am to Korkstand
quote:
By your logic, LSU should still have Miles and FSU should still have Bowden.
You talk about trends, and yet you claim that this is his logic?
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:39 am to hashtag
quote:
I'm just amazed how how daft some people are. You have one candidate who has won a NC as a coordinator, won another as a head coach, and played in the playoffs as a head coach. You are saying that you believe he can get you in the playoffs every 4-5 years with a shot at a NC.
So you would hire Gus Malzhan?
Context is everything.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:39 am to hashtag
See e.g. Clay Helton
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:40 am to c on z
quote:Yeah. What part don't you get?
You talk about trends, and yet you claim that this is his logic?
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:42 am to Random LSU Hero
Yeah richt was a home run for the U
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:43 am to hashtag
quote:
Coach Oregeron is not running a program. He's coaching 9 games. There is a MASSSSSSSSSSIVE difference between being an interim coach and running a program.
So running program lets see what you add?
Recruiting? I think he is good there
Spring Ball? how hard can it be?
Staff Decisions? He had me at firing Cam honestly lol
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:44 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Honest question, who specifically do you think can do better? Saban and Meyer are the obvious names, throw in Harbaugh too if you want - potentially Herman (still somewhat of an unknown but clearly the hot name right now).
I think a playoff run every four or five years is all the top flight programs can really hope for, especially in the SEC, unless you get one of the "generational coaches". Hell when Saban retires that will be all I hope to get from whomever Alabama hires.
I think barring a meltdown you have just as good a shot to be at that level with Orgeron and top flight coordinators. I just don't see the need to chase a ghost in Jimbo when you know he's not a "generational coach" like Saban or Meyer. Either take the risk on Herman or Fuentes that they will be the next great coach, or let them burn out, and look again in two years. They are no sure things, building a dynasty takes luck and patience. I'd rather see LSU take a shot at it than just settle for the safe and familiar pick in Jimbo.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:44 am to Sneaky__Sally
How well would you handle a firing if you knew you would be paid out millions over the next 5 years?
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:45 am to Random LSU Hero
quote:I think this is where most people saw things going, but it's hard to determine what would be classified as "exploding" right now. I think we'll know it when and if we see it. Things will become more clear in a few weeks.
Unless Coach O explodes... It's Herman, Jimbo, then CEO
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:46 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
oesn't change my overall point. You can hear it in the player's tone, and you can see it clearly in the fan reaction. While there have been a handful of tweaks, what we're seeing is mostly emotional stuff. Former players walking down the hill, visors during games, etc.
None of that is the same thing as running the program successfully long term. Doesn't mean he could not, just that what he's doing now is not really the same skill set needed for the other. And we'll literally never know how he'll be at that job without either taking into consideration the only time he's ever had that job, or simply hiring him and hoping it works out while he's on the job training at LSU.
Personally, that seems terrifying to me.
I'm not saying I'd oppose hiring Orgeron AFTER he's shown he can run a program successfully over a few years. Just that him doing well over 2/3 of a season in two places as the interim is not, in my opinion, the same thing as running a program.
I am not arguing for him for the job based on what he has done right now. I am arguing about what it would mean if he does win out. He wins out and you don't hire him, you are setting whomever you hire up for failure. They would need to be an all time great to even met expectations and that is just not realistic. I totally understand your concerns but you can't not hire someone that just would have done what he did. Allot of coaches have been hired at big programs for doing less than winning .875 out of their last 16 games and multiple wins against top 5 teams.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:47 am to abellsujr
quote:
I think this is where most people saw things going, but it's hard to determine what would be classified as "exploding" right now. I think we'll know it when and if we see it. Things will become more clear in a few weeks.
too soon to know but he has exceeded expectations so far.
Heavy lifting to come
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 10:52 am
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:49 am to Honest Tune
I don't really follow what you are asking me - I'm wasn't trying to imply that les should have been retained or anything like that.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:50 am to Korkstand
quote:
So now we're counting accomplishments from all positions?
for some idiots to get it? yes. It proves his can coach and coordinate. DO you need to see his background from Auburn and CIncy also? I am pretty sure FSU and LSU gives enough EMPIRICAL data.
quote:
If so, Orgeron has had quite a bit of success.
nowhere near equal to jimbo as a HC or OC. try again.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:51 am to hashtag
quote:Agreed. And while I don't have experience with football programs, I do have basic life experience that tells me that a very crucial quality in a great boss/manager is knowing what he's good at and what he's not. Knowing when to delegate and holding those under you accountable. Recognizing your own flaws and working to improve.
Coach Oregeron is not running a program. He's coaching 9 games. There is a MASSSSSSSSSSIVE difference between being an interim coach and running a program.
Orgeron has seen a lot of success and a lot of failure. He knows what it takes to win, and he knows how to frick up. He knows what to do and what not to do. I don't think it would be a risk at all to hire him.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:53 am to Sneaky__Sally
I'm saying it would be easy to put a nice smile on for a camera and "handle your firing well" if you knew you were about to be able to kick back at the camp with a cold beer and fishing pole while millions were direct deposited into your bank account.
Anyway, my very original point was that CEO seems like the opposite of Miles and a welcomed change to LSU's program.
And I don't care to be called stupid.
Anyway, my very original point was that CEO seems like the opposite of Miles and a welcomed change to LSU's program.
And I don't care to be called stupid.
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 10:55 am
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:55 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
I think barring a meltdown you have just as good a shot to be at that level with Orgeron and top flight coordinators. I just don't see the need to chase a ghost in Jimbo when you know he's not a "generational coach" like Saban or Meyer. Either take the risk on Herman or Fuentes that they will be the next great coach, or let them burn out, and look again in two years. They are no sure things, building a dynasty takes luck and patience. I'd rather see LSU take a shot at it than just settle for the safe and familiar pick in Jimbo.
I have just seen a lot of commentary like "this coach will lose 3 games a year" and I was just saying that i think 2/3 losses a year with every 3/4 years making a run at 1-loss / undefeated season and make it in to the playoffs is what you can expect in the SEC these days. That is mainly what I was replying to.
There are no guarantees, even Herman could come in and faceplant due to a much higher level of competition week in / week out. Coach O would definitely not be as expensive as Jimbo and wouldn't have the same level of expectations coming in IMO so it should relieve some of the pressure.
I think Jimbo is more of a known commodity and that is what you would be paying for plus the excitement generated by bringing in a NC winning coach would probably help out with recruiting in the first year or two.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:55 am to Korkstand
quote:
Orgeron has seen a lot of success and a lot of failure. He knows what it takes to win, and he knows how to frick up. He knows what to do and what not to do. I don't think it would be a risk at all to hire him.
Well said. He has been around the block a few times and has been humbled by his experiences. The fact that he said his biggest mistake at Ole Miss was trying to micromanage everything gives me a lot of confidence that he has learned what it takes to be the head guy and let his coaches coach. That's the biggest thing that scares me about Jimbo, he's always done it his way and to hear him talk he's never actually made a mistake, the ball just didn't bounce right or the rules are stupid.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 10:56 am to Random LSU Hero
quote:
Unless Coach O explodes... It's Herman, Jimbo, then CEO
Can somebody clarify what "explodes" means?
are we talking explode on a 10 game winning streak, or explode the program with 5 more losses?
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