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Posted on 4/17/26 at 5:59 am to DamnGood86
quote:
If everyone has money, no one does.
This. Completely.
A mint condition Action Comics #1 is worth millions at auction because it's recognized as the first true superhero comic but also because it's so rare. If everyone had a copy, you couldn't give it away. The same goes with money.
It doesn't matter what you set the UBI floor at, it's still going to be the new floor and all pricing will be built upwards from it.
What Elon seems to be talking about is trying to transition us into a post-scarcity economy where everything is harvested, refined and produced by robots/AI. We aren't anywhere close to that yet but when/if we get there the market will determine the best course of action to carry us through, not some federal redistribution program.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 6:00 am to AlterEd
So many issues with this, basically skipping Socialism and going straight to Communism.
When govt decides what constitutes “high income” it raises up the current poor and hurts everyone else. Since we’d all need to take a blue collar job to handle what AI can’t, how is that progress?
Labor is only a portion of cost, AI can’t solve the raw material dynamic in entirety.
When govt decides what constitutes “high income” it raises up the current poor and hurts everyone else. Since we’d all need to take a blue collar job to handle what AI can’t, how is that progress?
Labor is only a portion of cost, AI can’t solve the raw material dynamic in entirety.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 6:07 am to AlterEd
I've thought about this a lot. We are essentially about to fully implement a socialist system. But im still not sure that it will result in the dystopian outcomes of the past. Human nature is always the reason socialism and communism fail. There is no incentive to produce in a system where most benefit without contributing. But that's the rub... If AI and robotics will do the producing for us, the incentive problem of production is solved. The only piece that remains is the question of meaning. Can humans find purpose and meaning in a world that suddenly doesnt require your labor? I think most can if enough traversible hierarchies exist and allow social status gains.
This post was edited on 4/17/26 at 6:10 am
Posted on 4/17/26 at 6:14 am to AlterEd
The only way to make it work would be impossible. There will always be greed and corruption.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 6:34 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:
The only piece that remains is the question of meaning. Can humans find purpose and meaning in a world that suddenly doesnt require your labor?
Plenty of pieces remain. What if after some point AI decides to do it's own thing instead of be our slaves?
What if someone or something hacks our production?
You're talking about centralizing the entire economy. That is incredibly dangerous. What if the few who control everything aren't benevolent? Will the few even be human? Why will they want to share with hundreds of millions of useless eaters? Will steps be taken to reduce the population?
Posted on 4/17/26 at 6:36 am to AUCom96
quote:
It's called welfare and it already exists. If your only value to the government is a number, that check won't buy shite but a slum, bad food and a life of fixed poverty.
Universal high income?? I can hear it now- “that’s racist.”
Posted on 4/17/26 at 6:39 am to AlterEd
How about we first stop importing people especially H1B leeches, deport a crap ton of people, and then see where we lie.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 6:48 am to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
Plenty of pieces remain
You are right, i'm oversimplifying to assess the point the OP is making and assuming things like AI alignment are solved. But that risk of AI doing it's own thing in the future still exists. I'm only asking the question "If all other conditions are met, could humanity cope with a UBI and the automation of all production?"
Posted on 4/17/26 at 6:53 am to SidewalkDawg
Crime for the sake of crime would be rampant, as would drug abuse and alcoholism. No one would do shite all day.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 6:56 am to AlterEd
Imagine believing that a piece of shite like Elon would be interested in “high income UBI”. In the tech lords’ world we are all on scraps desperate to service their data farms.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 7:03 am to Woolfpack
quote:
I heard one theory that sounded like it seemed reasonable. Instead of monetary payments, every American could receive a certain allotment of AI credits. They could either use them, sell them or save them. I don’t know a lot about this stuff but that seems more reasonable. Also, I don’t doubt Elon believes what he says is possible.
The UBI folks live in some fallacy land where they only acknowledge the positive and completely ignore the negatives. Even if there were only one positive and 10,000 negatives, they only focus on the one positive. Assuming Elon is autistic on some level, it would explain his obsession with only the benefits of UBI without acknowledging the negatives.
It won't be economical for a long time to have AI perform certain tasks. Most, if not all people are not cut out to do these certain tasks. Physical skilled labor trades for instance. A world exists where AI CAN do those things, but it's not economical at the moment and I don't see how it can be for awhile. The world is moving fast at this point though so I won't say anything is impossible.
If the guys actually working jobs that AI can't, with a UBI, is this accounted for. The infrastructure maintenance of AI, how are those guys compensated.
I love the idea of not NEEDING to work in order to live a comfortable life, but nothing in life has ever been that easy.
Would love to see AI cure cancer, dementia, and find a way to remove people from dependent drugs.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 7:06 am to WhiskeyThrottle
It’s simpler than that. People need purpose. The summer of love is what happens when people sit around bored.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 7:41 am to NIH
quote:
It’s simpler than that. People need purpose. The summer of love is what happens when people sit around bored.
I think we overestimate how much purpose people get from their jobs. Most people sit at their job and collect a paycheck because they have to. They aren't deriving any grand purpose from it. It's a means to live the life they want.
There are genuinely people that do get purpose from their job though. From my experience those people worry little about the pay, it's about something bigger than that for them.
No hope for the future is what causes revolutions.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 7:46 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:
I think we overestimate how much purpose people get from their jobs. Most people sit at their job and collect a paycheck because they have to. They aren't deriving any grand purpose from it. It's a means to live the life they want.
There are genuinely people that do get purpose from their job though. From my experience those people worry little about the pay, it's about something bigger than that for them.
No hope for the future is what causes revolutions.
I've always submitted to the idea that if you aren't making money, you're spending money. On days I don't work, I spend a lot more than days I work. So if I didn't have to work for my money, my money wouldn't last longer and I wouldn't be content with my current amount of salary. The UBI would have to be much higher than what I think the collective of us make in order for it to work, and the money means much less if you didn't actually earn it. People would have to learn to be discipline, or I somewhat agree that there will be more crime. And I don't have faith that the majority of society can be discipline.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 7:53 am to AlterEd
UBI, especially high UBI is not compatable with human nature. I wouldn't expect an autistic technocrat like Musk to consider that.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 7:58 am to AlterEd
quote:
AI/robotics will produce goods & services far in excess of the increase in the money supply, so there will not be inflation.
People will over consume eventually leading to rapid depletion of natural resources far faster than the earths natural cycle can replace them, leading to a ecological and environmental crisis along with shortages of raw materials leading to “wait for it” inflation.
Then the only answer will be centrally planned economy with govt imposed rationing and quotas and we know where that eventually leads.
Not to mention the physical and mental health issues caused by a population that has plenty of whatever they want and not working for anything.
Amazing someone as smart as Elon doesn’t realize this
Posted on 4/17/26 at 8:00 am to AlterEd
Not with mass migration and open borders.
Not with our current population levels.
Not without all the power transferring to the tech giants and government.
Not with our current population levels.
Not without all the power transferring to the tech giants and government.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 8:08 am to AlterEd
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. I've been thinking quite a bit over the past several years about a future where 60-70-80% of all economic production is due to AI, automation and robotics, can't really wrap my mind around the net benefit of hundreds of millions of people being idled and that being a good thing. As the old saying goes, idle time is the devil's time.
Posted on 4/17/26 at 8:11 am to DamnGood86
quote:
If everyone has money, no one does.
correct
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