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Started By
Message
re: What responsibility do hospitalized, unvaxed people bear when they deny others healthcare?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:24 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
countless other stories of people being denied care
Yes, we are being dealt with honestly during this fiasco.
So true. People have said it, so be it.
They tried that shite here, they were found in a lie. We heard that there were only three ICU units available, which of course wasn't true.
My responsibility is to me and my family, only. I try to play well with others, but when it comes to survival we do what we think is best.
My wife and I are vaccinated, I have a daughter who is not. I think the vaccination is good for me, but I don't attach moral authority to it like you do. You pretend not to, but its apparent to everyone else.
You do you, I'll do me. You keep your morality to yourself.
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 9:26 am
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Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:24 am to Damone
quote:
there is a free, easy, readily available
Way for an obese person to not get heart disease and diabetes, which by the way will kill more people than covid this year and every year. It's called backing away from the buffet.
There's a way for people to not get lung cancer. Free, easy and readily available. It's called NOT SMOKING.
So who bears responsibility when the guy who's smoked 2 packs a day lung cancer is taking up an ICU bed that the 250 lb woman that caught covid can't use?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:25 am to Damone
quote:
They bear a ton of moral responsibility. The anti-vaxers always deflect from the issue by pointing out other personal health issues (hilariously implying that they are making a bad health choice). But the one huge difference is that there is a free, easy, readily available shot that essentially eliminates any need for emergency medical treatment if one contracts Covid.
Eh, not really.
Most of our choices have risk attached to them. There are lots of overweight people who are perfectly healthy.... and others who are chronically sick. There are lots of people who drive every day who never get in a wreck.... and others that unfortunately die in a crash that isn't their fault. There are people who take out a second mortgage on their house and successfully expand their wealth...and others who lose everything.
There are unvaccinated who unfortunately get COVID and die, and others who are fine.
Those who say COVID has no risk, yeah are wrong, but using a personal responsibility argument about being vaccinated or not is just saying that most of our choices incur some level of risk. That isn't implying it's a bad choice, it's implying that it's risky in one direction like other choices.
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 9:26 am
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Show me where I "mandated" anything.
When you argued for them as a zero cost measure that we would do regardless of their effectiveness. You evidently support the mandates even if you don't have the balls to admit it.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:25 am to SlowFlowPro
In the context of your thread, what does "bear responsibility" mean exactly?
Who bears responsibility for the thousands of vaccinated people taking up hospital resources?
Current numbers for TMC shows 610 covid patients in ICU, with just under 1500 total beds taken. That's 28% and 66% total bed usage, respectively. Who bears responsibility for 900 non-covid patients? Are those 610 covid patients actually there because of covid? Do we really care at those bed usage rates?
TMC is still saying they are slammed, but much of that is because of their vaccine mandates. So who bears responsibility for your misinformed opinion should the likely case be that beds are there, and it is actually hospital admins causing the shortage of resources?
As someone clearly set to strongly pressure people to get vaccinated, do you bear responsibility for any and all adverse reactions to it?
This thread isn't even academically or philosophically interesting. It's certainly not interesting in the context of what is really occurring.
Who bears responsibility for the thousands of vaccinated people taking up hospital resources?
Current numbers for TMC shows 610 covid patients in ICU, with just under 1500 total beds taken. That's 28% and 66% total bed usage, respectively. Who bears responsibility for 900 non-covid patients? Are those 610 covid patients actually there because of covid? Do we really care at those bed usage rates?
TMC is still saying they are slammed, but much of that is because of their vaccine mandates. So who bears responsibility for your misinformed opinion should the likely case be that beds are there, and it is actually hospital admins causing the shortage of resources?
As someone clearly set to strongly pressure people to get vaccinated, do you bear responsibility for any and all adverse reactions to it?
This thread isn't even academically or philosophically interesting. It's certainly not interesting in the context of what is really occurring.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:26 am to GRTiger
quote:
In the context of your thread, what does "bear responsibility" mean exactly?
Morality
He'll deny it, but he's wrong. Just another morality evangelist.
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 9:27 am
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:26 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
1/6 absolutely broke slow and sent him back toward the nanny state progressive he is at heart.
I don't know what broke him, but this absolutely happened.
To say his core beliefs are flighty is an understatement. Personally, I think it's always been this way. It's probably related to his upbringing and some general psychosis he deals with. Something was missing during his formative years.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:27 am to SlowFlowPro
I had a cousin that was in the middle of a cancer battle last year when MD Anderson stopped treating her since she was from Louisiana and CV was spiking here. They told her to get treated locally. You and I know St Pats cant do what MD Anderson can. She lost her battle and it was probably inevitable but she was also taken off of the experimental treatment list that she had just gotten approved for.
This was pre-vaccine so what responsibility does MD Anderson have?
This was pre-vaccine so what responsibility does MD Anderson have?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:27 am to moneyg
quote:
1/6 absolutely broke slow and sent him back toward the nanny state progressive he is at heart.
Fact, and its obvious. I think theres a woman in there as well. She obviously has a lot of influence on him.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:28 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
ThE guy that just said masks have no cost is calling others NPC
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:30 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
When you say "they really need to figure out their logistics before the next surge," my response is "Welcome to April 2020." They've had a year-and-a-half, and several wet runs.
The hilarious part is listening to Healthcare professionals, who were bitching about administrators making medical decisions and not giving them what they need up until 2 years ago, now talking as if administration is perfectly running the hospital.
Humans are too quick to change positions when you turn on the brainwashing faucet.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:30 am to Lg
quote:
Way for an obese person to not get heart disease and diabetes, which by the way will kill more people than covid this year and every year. It's called backing away from the buffet. There's a way for people to not get lung cancer. Free, easy and readily available. It's called NOT SMOKING. So who bears responsibility when the guy who's smoked 2 packs a day lung cancer is taking up an ICU bed that the 250 lb woman that caught covid can't use?
When I see something like this on this board and elsewhere, it has always been a bad faith conversation considering how there has not been any genuine care about someone’s general health and more a way to just create an argument to not get the vaccine.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:30 am to GRTiger
quote:
This thread isn't even academically or philosophically interesting. It's certainly not interesting in the context of what is really occurring.
Truth
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:31 am to Freauxzen
One way that vaccination COVID is significantly different from other health choices is that below population-level immunity with a virus that has significant mortality, need for hospitalization and long-term morbidity and a high reproduction number, your individual health decision as well as collective health decisions to vaccinate makes more of an effect on others than health decisions that don't have exponential growth in a vulnerable population.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:31 am to SlowFlowPro
You start going down the slope you can start adding all kinds of restrictions for admittance.
Don’t exercise
Eat wrong foods
Eat too much
Drink too much alcohol
Smoke anything
Engaged in extreme activities
Etc…
What about an illness that a Dr misdiagnoses and could have been treatable but ends up sending you to the hospital. You now took up a bed that could have been avoided had your Dr been more competent. I mean you could go in and on and on. You don’t want to start going down this road Herr Fuhrer.
Don’t exercise
Eat wrong foods
Eat too much
Drink too much alcohol
Smoke anything
Engaged in extreme activities
Etc…
What about an illness that a Dr misdiagnoses and could have been treatable but ends up sending you to the hospital. You now took up a bed that could have been avoided had your Dr been more competent. I mean you could go in and on and on. You don’t want to start going down this road Herr Fuhrer.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:32 am to Damone
quote:Personal health issues? Like the fact they previously had CV19? Like the fact the best way to avoid unnecessary medical complications is to avoid unnecessary medicine? Those kind of personal issues.
They bear a ton of moral responsibility. The anti-vaxers always deflect from the issue by pointing out other personal health issues (hilariously implying that they are making a bad health choice).
There is a truckload of manure being delivered in this blame the patient narrative.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:32 am to c on z
quote:
When I see something like this on this board and elsewhere, it has always been a bad faith conversation considering how there has not been any genuine care about someone’s general health and more a way to just create an argument to not get the vaccine.
How do you feel about Biden and Kamala trashing the vaccine while campaigning last year? How does it compare to their nonstop push of it now?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:32 am to GRTiger
quote:
This thread isn't even academically or philosophically interesting.
Its an attempt to shame people who are not vaccinated.
He's trying to frame it as something else.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:38 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
When you argued for them as a zero cost measure that we would do regardless of their effectiveness.
That's not mandating.
quote:
You evidently support the mandates even if you don't have the balls to admit it.
No I support personal responsibility.
If my actions may hurt others and there is a 0-cost option that may decrease this, I think it's my responsibility to choose that 0-cost option. I never said it should be mandated by anyone.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If my actions may hurt others
Morality warrior.
Sorry, we have more than enough evangelists.
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