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Started By
Message
re: What responsibility do hospitalized, unvaxed people bear when they deny others healthcare?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:00 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:00 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Except the story, as breathlessly recounted in the OP, never happened.
quote:
I admitted as much in OP. It's irrelevant because there are countless other stories of people being denied care or care being delayed due to covid overruns.
Then why didn't you use one of these easily verifiable examples in your OP instead of the one you admit never happened?
Care to link even one of these "countless other stories"?
0
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Where is your criticism of the fat and obese?
Show me where hospitals (at least in 2021) are being overrun with people requiring hospitalization for obesity-related illnesses (diabetes, heart disease, etc.).
quote:
Until you criticize them with the same vitriol you are criticizing the unvaccinated you can go piss up a rope
Any obese person or person over 50 who is not vaccinated is a raging idiot.
Covid 19 hospitalization is obesity related!!!!!
And yes, your last statement is valid regarding obese 50 year olds non vaccinated.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
in random, isolated events, sure. or for acute seasons of disease (like the flu), sure.
but this is a long-term event that is in no way random. that argument is gone now, too.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
child with cancer who had to wait hours to be seen when experiencing a complication
Again, this happens all the time. Have you been in an emergency room before? Every single day in almost every waiting room in a decently populated area
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 9:05 am
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:04 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No I'm saying that if you're unvaccinated and you take up a bed that leads to a person without covid being denied service, you bear personal responsibility for that.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Your responsibility for the negative externalities of your actions decreases based on how responsible you were in avoiding infection/severe reactions. Vaccinations, masking, distancing, etc. all play a part.
If no one is in charge of determining responsibility, then explain how your above scenario works exactly. Just trying to understand what you have in mind.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
But the elderly didn't make a choice to be old during a pandemic. That's where this discussion has to be removed form one about personal responsibility. Now if there was a magic machine that could make people age, and you used that machine during this pandemic, then yeah, you bear a lot of personal responsibility if you get covid and due to your chosen-age, this leads to denying others' care.
What they could choose is to forgo getting healthcare at all and save it for the younger, "more valuable" population.
They don't choose to grow old, but THEY choose to get healthcare, which would be a problem in your view right?
They don't NEED healthcare, and they are dying soon anyway.
quote:
They aren't so numerous that they're overrunning ICUs and hospitals. That's the difference.
But they make hospitals make certain choices that make other choices different, and probably negatively impact healthy individuals.
Your point is one groups "chooses" something, in this case not to get the vaccine, which then impacts a groups that makes the opposite choice, and negatively.
That same thing plays out in a variety of ways all over the place. This scenario isn't unique. The point is, we all have the choice. Old people have the choice to over-user healthcare, people have the choice to be obese, people have the choice to be unvaccinated - and all of them can negatively impact others.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If you are unvaccinated and you end up taking up hospital resources, you're ultimately denying healthcare to others. This is a zero-sum game at this point and there is no way around that fact.
I reject this argument for the absurd buffoonery it is.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This thread is not about mandating the vaccine.
It's about helping a failed attorney find another avenue to apply tort law.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
dozens and dozens of unvaccinated people ended up creating negative externalities that negatively affected others. If this case is true, they killed this man, effectively.
quote:no decades of treating his heart like shite probably killed him.
Ray DeMonia, 73,suffered a cardiac emergency.
quote:no apply this to the massive sugar and calorie intake most Americans do which causes most of these issues.
If you are unvaccinated and you end up taking up hospital resources, you're ultimately denying healthcare to others. This is a zero-sum game at this point and there is no way around that fact.
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 9:10 am
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:08 am to SlowFlowPro
Did you even read the first sentence of the article?
He died in a hospital. He received care. Was it convenient, no. But he received care.
Also from the article, they were looking for a "cardiac ICU bed". It is entirely possible that those beds were taken by other Cardiac patients that were vaccinated.
Your OP has no standing.
He died in a hospital. He received care. Was it convenient, no. But he received care.
Also from the article, they were looking for a "cardiac ICU bed". It is entirely possible that those beds were taken by other Cardiac patients that were vaccinated.
Your OP has no standing.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:10 am to GetMeOutOfHere
quote:
The medical system had 18 months to recognize this pattern. With the time they had to prepare, the only blame lies in the mirror.
Absolutely. We are going to allow hospitals to remain understaffed without liability while blaming sick people for daring to pay for and utilize healthcare services.
In SFP's world, this makes sense.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:12 am to Padme
quote:
You cited easily verifiable cases, well
Here is a sampling. The algorithm is making this difficult b/c of the new case and the recent ivermectin denials. Anything related to "denial" and "covid" is bringing these stories up for pages and pages.
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
Some of these, admittedly, do involve treatment of covid-positive patients. I'll try to look for more but Google is making it difficult.
And if you reply with a criticism of the source(s), then I'm not investing anymore in this exchange.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Show me where hospitals (at least in 2021) are being overrun with people requiring hospitalization for obesity-related illnesses (diabetes, heart disease, etc.).
Covid, in the context of hospitalization needs, is very much related to obesity, heart disease, diabetes, old age, etc.
Covid hospitalizations are down 33% compared to January. You don't have to answer the question about your lack of a thread back then. We know it's about vaccinations and softening the blow for punitive policies aimed at the unvaccinated. The question is why are you using fake stories to push it?
This is the covid equivalent of starting a thread about racist graffiti at LeBron's house, admitting it was likely a hoax, then still "having the conversation" about the affect of white privilege on the psyche of the minority population of the US. You've shouted straw man about a dozen times in this thread, even though you are a walking talking straw man. Or maybe red herring is a more appropriate description
CDC data
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:12 am to moneyg
quote:
You've gone crazy of the last few months, fwiw.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No this is just an extreme example for a thread I've been thinking about making for weeks now.
I have multiple clients who have had major issues getting treated after serious car wrecks due to the lack of ER space/beds.
told ya
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:13 am to Open Your Eyes
quote:
Who posted these quotes in this thread fatass?
They are posted within the confines of the specific arguments.
Nothing prevents you from making your own thread about the topics that seem to interest you that you keep promoting in this thread.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:14 am to SlowFlowPro
They bear a ton of moral responsibility. The anti-vaxers always deflect from the issue by pointing out other personal health issues (hilariously implying that they are making a bad health choice). But the one huge difference is that there is a free, easy, readily available shot that essentially eliminates any need for emergency medical treatment if one contracts Covid.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 9:15 am to SlowFlowPro
I thought you were smarter than this. Apparently I was wrong.
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