re: What responsibility do hospitalized, unvaxed people bear when they deny others healthcare?

Link #1

Hospital transfer takes longer than is desirable for an acute patient.

Link #2

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We waited in that lot. It wasn't terribly long

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lol.

Link #3

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Riley Hospital for Children is pushing back the start date for its highly-anticipated maternity unit.

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Did you think people weren’t going to read past the first link?

Link #4

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While that doesn’t mean there are zero beds, it’s clear the COVID-19 surge is straining resources.

“I don’t have the details for each facility, I’m sure each have a different criteria for when they would accept or deny a patient,” Darnauer said. There are the many factors that’s contributing to a pediatric bed shortage. First and foremost, the COVID-19 delta variant is putting more kids in hospitals. In addition, there’s an increase, doctors said, of respiratory syncytial virus or RSV.

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Damn RSV patients and their vax denial.

Link #5

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Although the Utah Department of Health has been reporting that intensive care units are typically 65% to 75% occupied, that’s a statewide figure. It doesn’t account for different locations or the type of care a patient actually needs.

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And...

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In the early hours of Oct. 7, Terry needed advanced imaging and life-support tools — in particular a heart-lung device called an ECMO machine. That’s something only three hospitals in Utah have, said Dr. Mark Ott, medical director of Intermountain Medical Center. And only two Utah hospitals — IMC and University of Utah Hospital — have the level-one trauma centers that Terry’s doctors said she needed.

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So really this was a lack of ECMO. Do all hospitals need to go get a couple ECMOs to make you happy? Is that personal responsibility?

Link #6

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Last Friday, they started the process of getting him transferred to a hospital in Oklahoma City, but that fell through. Later that day, a bed opened up at Ascension Via Christi St. Francis in Wichita and he was transferred.

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What’s the relevance here? That one hospital transfer fell through? Whoa. Phone the press.

Link #7

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Paryani, who also shared his experiences in an op-ed in The Washington Post, said the cancer patient was later admitted to another facility nearby.

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Another hospital transfer falls through.

Link #8

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The family was trying to have him transferred to raise his chances of surviving, but she says ICU beds and larger hospitals were full.

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Another hospital transfer story.

That’s quite a list. Maybe the first link supports your proposition. I have some doubts about it.

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Personal health issues? Like the fact they previously had CV19? Like the fact the best way to avoid unnecessary medical complications is to avoid unnecessary medicine? Those kind of personal issues.

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This can't be stated enough - why it is so difficult for some to comprehend?

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In the context of your thread, what does "bear responsibility" mean exactly?

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That is very personal. Some people are just assholes who never bear responsibility for anything. Some try to remake reality so that they're the hero and never have to bear responsibility for anything. Some are raised in cultures of reliance that create a mindset where nothing is their fault. Some people join with others in cult-like thinking where they truly believe they aren't at fault. There isn't a singular answer to this question, especially with the wide variety of people on earth.

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So do something that does nothing, just because?

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No. There is no evidence masks do "nothing". As I said earlier, if the cost is 0, any benefit makes the decision easy.

As someone who values individual liberty, I am very sympathetic to those who do not wish to be told what to do by the government. But your linked story (or "hypothetical" if the story is not entirely true), is an excellent example of how individual choices can produce negative externalities. At some level, I suspect this is what the concept of public health is about, and my sense is that many in the anti-vax crowd put little, if any, importance on the concept of public health.

Now, what to do about it? At least for me, I want very much to draw the line at mandatory vaccinations. How common is the scenario in the article? I would not want to make bad facts off bad law. In much of the country, voluntary vaccinations have produced good numbers; perhaps we can keep trying, and the unvaxxed who have already had COVID have some level of immunity, too. In sum, an excellent example of an acute negative externality, but I would still be reluctant to implement an authoritarian solution.

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Any denial or delay in service is a problem.

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A minority of Hospitalized patients, including ICU beds, are being actively treated for COVID. Why are they specifically delaying service and not the septic sacral decubitus ulcer who’s in the ICU too? What about the CHF exacerbation patient or the non-COVID pneumonia patient? Are they delaying/denying the made up person’s care?

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How do you feel about Biden and Kamala trashing the vaccine while campaigning last year? How does it compare to their nonstop push of it now?

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They didn’t trust Trump’s rollout of the vaccine. That’s a major point that gets overlooked when this gets brought up.

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any benefit makes the decision easy.

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Can you show me a single benefit proven to be due to the masks.

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That is 100 percent an administration frickup that those incompetent assholes shifted the blame on.

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That was SFP’s best link.