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Started By
Message
re: US controlled the Strait the entire time. US intelligence had eyes on every inch of IRAN!!
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:02 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:02 am to SlowFlowPro
Screw your gymnastics. Do you have anything else to do?
1
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:06 am to Rip Torner
quote:
You do realize blockading the Strait hurt Iran more than it did us? Clearly you don’t
No it didn't. We wouldn't have given them everything if that was the case. We would release the deal if we were in the position of power.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:06 am to jawnybnsc
quote:
Screw your gymnastics.
What gymnastics? Where did I say what you wrote?
Your post had all the classic earmarks of a straw man.
I'll make this simple for you (to avoid your straw man). If the argument that the US controlled the SOH is correct, and only Iran was suffering, AND we were secretly running oil through the SOH, why would we need to engage in the "needless destruction of Iranian civil and energy infrastructure"?
Why would we need to do anything, to win, if that was the case? It would seem in that scenario Iran had no options and unconditional surrender was guaranteed in time.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Haven't you described our deal as a failure?
No one knows what the deal is. Especially you
But if the IRGC isnt replaced or isnt open for business after this plus no Kharg then imo its a fail
We will see
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:08 am to SDVTiger
quote:
No one knows what the deal is. Especially you
I thought one of your red lines was Kharg Island, and we do know 100% that Iran will continue to control it.
quote:
But if the IRGC isnt replaced or isnt open for business after this plus no Kharg then imo its a fail
Then you are describing this as a failure b/c those aren't happening.
The regime will not change and Kharg will remain under control of the regime.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:12 am to Lsut81
quote:
If we controlled from day 1, then why did we allow them to mine the thing? Just for shits and giggles?
It's a semantic argument. Did Iran control who entered and exited the straight or was it the US? What happened to ships that tried to leave the strait without our permission?
It's just nitpicking nonsense so people can argue.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:14 am to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
Did Iran control who entered and exited the straight or was it the US?
If we controlled the SOH, why would we thwart the free flow of petro shipments from non-Iranian states?
quote:
It's just nitpicking nonsense so people can argue.
It's likely the variable the caused the US to capitulate, which is why the MAGA spin is so hard to create their talking points. Just look at how they debase themselves trying to contort themselves into answer the question above.
This post was edited on 6/16/26 at 8:15 am
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:14 am to UtahCajun
quote:This an astute and correct observation though I would say that their ballistic missiles could be viewed as offensive capability. The actual (total) armed forces is large in ratio to their population but about half (?) is more like auxiliary/reserves. Their air force capabilities/hardware are limited and very dated. They have a decent drone game but their navy is small and set up for small strikes. They are set up for defense and regional attacks are almost all by proxy. All the descriptions I gave are present tense as the extent of what remains is yet TBD.
Irans military is a defensive military that does not have offensive capability. Their airforce still used F-4's and F-5's. They had less than a dozen true ships.
The U.S. outspends them by 50 to 1 in a military capacity so a lot of these numbers should be greatly decreased.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:15 am to Rip Torner
quote:
You do realize blockading the Strait hurt Iran more than it did us? Clearly you don’t
Do you think that we weren’t letting non-Iranian/iranian bound/Iranian departing ships through our blockade?
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
So we close the straight to hurt our efforts in the war?
How did it hurt our war efforts?
Did we run out of oil for manufacturing weapons?
Did we run out of energy to power our planes, ships, and missiles?
Did we need to be in the strait to launch missile attacks?
Would we have launched a ground assault if the strait was open?
Would Iran have held out longer if the strait was open and they were able to sell oil and resupply?
As usual, you are making quite the stretch.
Looking at the facts, US energy exports increased while the strait was closed. How did selling more energy hurt our war effort?
The only thing that impacted us with the strait closing was just bitching from soft Americans unable to plan for a temporary spike in gas prices and other countries unwilling to step up and ensure their own supply lines.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:27 am to SlowFlowPro
The anti Trumpers , you understand, forced Trump to close off the Strait......9D chess played underwater without oxygen
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:28 am to TenWheelsForJesus
It was an economic weapon that created pressure on us to end the war sooner and simultaneously from escalating the conflict.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:31 am to Schleynole
quote:
And we gave them everything they wanted. Almost like they had the upper hand.
We certainly do not want to leave a vacuum in the ME as GWB did with Iraq. What I like is the other ME countries are involved in the future of Iran.
But that 57 year old war is over.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:32 am to Mo Jeaux
Wow six pages of people arguing over semantics.
There are various forms of control. In an military setting there is a such thing as 'fire control'. If you have fire control over a road or strait then any vessel/vehicle is subject to being hit by enemy fire. The USA had fire control over the entire country of Iran including the strait of Hormuz.
Iran also had fire control but not to the same degree as the USA.
Well over a hundred ships were able to sneak past Iran's blockade as of a week ago.
You can have fire control over an area that you are not occupying. You can occupy an area that you do not have exclusive fire control over.
There are various forms of control. In an military setting there is a such thing as 'fire control'. If you have fire control over a road or strait then any vessel/vehicle is subject to being hit by enemy fire. The USA had fire control over the entire country of Iran including the strait of Hormuz.
Iran also had fire control but not to the same degree as the USA.
Well over a hundred ships were able to sneak past Iran's blockade as of a week ago.
You can have fire control over an area that you are not occupying. You can occupy an area that you do not have exclusive fire control over.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:34 am to Schleynole
There is at least one or two people in this thread who legit think Trump is a fricking time traveler, lol.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:40 am to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
How did it hurt our war efforts?
By creating an economic and political scenario that put incredible pressure on our government. Our government and stop this variable, which is why we had to capitulate.
Closing the strait led to international and domestic pressure that the administration could not thwart anymore.
Had we gained control over the strait and permitted the free flow of oil from non-Iranan countries, then we could claim that we had control. In that scenario we could hold out indefinitely as this is not an expensive option and Iran. What ultimately capitulate in unconditional surrender.
This has future effects as well because now Iran can just threaten to close the strait anytime that we try to criticize or regulate them or their bad behavior. It's been shown that we cannot stop them from severely impacting the flow of Petro from the Middle East, which will cause incredible domestic and international pressure that we cannot afford.
This post was edited on 6/16/26 at 8:41 am
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:50 am to SlowFlowPro
Conservatives in this thread
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:53 am to SlowFlowPro
dang....got a finger cramp from down voting sfp 48 times in this one thread. I should not be doing that this early in the morning
Posted on 6/16/26 at 8:59 am to SlowFlowPro
A free flowing goal post.
Posted on 6/16/26 at 9:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I thought one of your red lines was Kharg Island, and we do know 100% that Iran will continue to control it
No we dont. What red line?
quote:
Then you are describing this as a failure b/c those aren't happening.
It would be a fail. You dont know if thats happening or not
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