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Message
re: This is Murder
Posted on 11/28/21 at 4:03 pm to PiscesTiger
Posted on 11/28/21 at 4:03 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
You sure as hell don’t grab at a dude’s weapon. He doesn’t do that, he’s still alive.
so anytime someone points a gun at you, you have to just comply until they no longer are pointing the gun at you? no harm no foul for the guy pulling the gun?
2
Posted on 11/28/21 at 4:13 pm to stlslick
Well here we are again and so soon, don’t care about the situation, I saw the whole video, I get it, but wtf do u think is gonna happen when u approach and try to take someone’s gun wtf? And u say your gonna take it and use it.
This is stupid not murder.
This is stupid not murder.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 4:14 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
so anytime someone points a gun at you, you have to just comply until they no longer are pointing the gun at you? no harm no foul for the guy pulling the gun?
Shooter bever pointed the gun at the victim until he shot him. All he did was ask him to leave. The victim was the one making threats and attacking people.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 4:19 pm to DeathValley85
quote:
I guess that’s one interpretation. The other being the guy must not have feared for his life too much because he could have stayed in the house and called the police. He also decided to fire off some warning shots. Does this make him the aggressor now? I think we’ll all find out together.
I dont think he needed to have feared for his life to go grab his gun from the house, just that it would be necessary prior to shooting it. which he may have had that fear when the dead guy became more aggressive. I could also see firing warning shots being a form of aggravated assault/provocation or something that could potentially nullify self defense claims.
as another poster claimed the dead guy had a right to be there via court orders to pick up his son. if thats true then the gestalt situation seems more bleak for the shooter as he may have gained the right to self defense after the warning shot was fired.
definitely not so cut and dry. should be interesting if more develops.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 4:48 pm to diat150
quote:
hooter bever pointed the gun at the victim until he shot him
True, but he fires a warning shot at the ground before the victim ever reaches for the gun. One could argue that move turns him from someone just trying to defend himself, to the aggressor.
quote:
The victim was the one making threats
You can't shoot someone in self defense because of verbal threats.
quote:
attacking people.
Again, he doesn't "attack" the guy until the guy discharges his weapon.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 5:11 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
True, but he fires a warning shot at the ground before the victim ever reaches for the gun. One could argue that move turns him from someone just trying to defend himself, to the aggressor.
maybe, but you can see that the victim looks down and moves his hand toward the weapon before the shooter backs up and the shot happens. right after the victim says he will take the weapon and use it on him of course. and nobody has said if it was a warning shot or accidental discharge yet on the defense side. The way I look at it is it shows restraint on the side of the shooter(assuming it was a warning shot), he didnt want to shoot this guy, but then when the guy tries to grab the gun again he has no choice.
quote:
You can't shoot someone in self defense because of verbal threats.
he clearly was shot because he tried to take the weapon. had the shooter just walked out and shot him this would be a different story. the victim was the aggressor, he was the one that was angry he was the one that was asked to leave, he was the one that walked across the yard to make the confrontation physical. Keep in mind the shooter never left his porch until the victim spun him off the porch trying to take the weapon. The victim stepped up onto the porch to have a physical confrontation with an armed man and threatened to take his gun and use it on him. He was the one that made the movements and tried to grab the gun. he made bad judgements from the start until the end.
quote:
Again, he doesn't "attack" the guy until the guy discharges his weapon
he made the confrontation physical instead of getting in his truck when asked to leave. he said what he was going to do loud and clear and tried to do it. The shooter never made a threat or pointed the weapon at him.
Look I can understand if the shooter told the guy if you dont leave I will shoot you and then shot the guy... but thats not what happened here. the victim made the physical contact, he walked across the yard to confront an armed man on his porch, he then told the armed man that he was gonna take the weapon and use it on him, and then attempted to do exactly what he said he would do.
This post was edited on 11/28/21 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 11/28/21 at 5:16 pm to oklahogjr
quote:gun puts bullet where it’s pointed at if triggered, what am I missing here
anytime someone points a gun at you, you have to just comply until they no longer are pointing the gun at you?
Posted on 11/28/21 at 5:22 pm to roadGator
quote:
Does your jaw hurt from keeping your mouth open all day?
The numerous dicks massaging his jaw every day relax it.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 5:31 pm to PsychTiger
looks like the victim spent some time in the pen for embezzling money from a business an ex wife worked for.
LINK
totally unrelated an irrelevant.. but anyway
LINK
totally unrelated an irrelevant.. but anyway
Posted on 11/28/21 at 5:38 pm to diat150
quote:
maybe, but you can see that the victim looks down and moves his hand toward the weapon before the shooter backs up and the shot happens.
He does not touch the weapon or strike/attack the shooter prior to the warning shot being fired. Prior to the shot being fired, they are just bowed up, chest to chest.
quote:
right after the victim says he will take the weapon and use it on him of course
You keep mentioning this as if it’s relevant. Verbal threats are totally irrelevant in a self defense claim. You can’t shoot someone because of things they say they will do to you.
quote:
The way I look at it is it shows restraint on the side of the shooter(assuming it was a warning shot
I’m not following how firing a warning shot, prior to this situation having any real physical confrontation, is showing restraint. Everything turned to shite right after this shot. quote:
The shooter never made a threat
Firing at my feet, prior to me doing anything physical to you, is most certainly a threat. What world do you live in?
Posted on 11/28/21 at 5:43 pm to AuburnTigers
quote:
Tough talk behind a keyboard. Say when motherfricker
There is no shortage of irony here
Posted on 11/28/21 at 5:56 pm to diat150
quote:
The fact that the guy attacked him even though he was armed just goes to show that the victim was a lunatic.
The pertinent fact you are overlooking in this statement is that the deceased did not grab for the gun until the shooter fired a shot into the ground at his feet. This is where the self defense claim falls apart.
The shooter did not feel threatened at that point because if he had been he would have shot the guy at that time. This is the evidence that shows the shooter escalated the confrontation to a claim of self defense.
You cannot provoke a confrontation to the point of using deadly force and still claim self defense.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 6:01 pm to diat150
quote:
diat150
You and others in this thread are going to end up in prison for what you think you know about self defense
Posted on 11/28/21 at 6:02 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
He does not touch the weapon or strike/attack the shooter prior to the warning shot being fired. Prior to the shot being fired, they are just bowed up, chest to chest.
the victim committed assault by initiating physical contact against the shooter. he then threatened to take the shooters weapon and use it against him. He then looked down at the weapon and tried to grab at it before the shooter pulled back and the first shot happened.
quote:
You keep mentioning this as if it’s relevant. Verbal threats are totally irrelevant in a self defense claim. You can’t shoot someone because of things they say they will do to you.
its very relevant. you are pretty stupid if you believe otherwise.
quote:everything turned to shite when the victim wouldnt leave when asked and tried to act like a badass and confront an armed man and take his weapon. its that simple.
I’m not following how firing a warning shot, prior to this situation having any real physical confrontation, is showing restraint. Everything turned to shite right after this shot.
quote:did he fire a warning shot or did he fire at his feet? you seem confused.
Firing at my feet, prior to me doing anything physical to you, is most certainly a threat. What world do you live in?
Posted on 11/28/21 at 6:05 pm to fwtex
quote:
The pertinent fact you are overlooking in this statement is that the deceased did not grab for the gun until the shooter fired a shot into the ground at his feet. This is where the self defense claim falls apart.
Yeah I don’t understand why he isn’t at least acknowledging how this changes things. There were heated words and verbal threats, but it wasn’t until this warning shot was fired that things turned physical.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 6:07 pm to fwtex
quote:
The pertinent fact you are overlooking in this statement is that the deceased did not grab for the gun until the shooter fired a shot into the ground at his feet. This is where the self defense claim falls apart.
thats arguable, you can see him look down at the weapon and make a move with his hand and thats when the shooter backs up. again, we are only assuming it was a warning shot, the defense may make the claim that it was an accidental discharge.
quote:
The shooter did not feel threatened at that point because if he had been he would have shot the guy at that time. This is the evidence that shows the shooter escalated the confrontation to a claim of self defense.
You cannot provoke a confrontation to the point of using deadly force and still claim self defense.
the shooter didnt escalate anything, the victim was the one that escalated the physical confrontation, made the threat, and acted out the threat.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 6:08 pm to stlslick
This happened in Texas where John Horn shot, and killed two unarmed men robbing his neighbors house that were of no threat to him, after being told not to do it by the 911 operator, and he was acquitted on al charges. This guy will not even be charged.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 6:09 pm to DeathValley85
quote:
You and others in this thread are going to end up in prison for what you think you know about self defense
put your money where your mouth is. $500 donation to the site if this guy is not guilty? Ill send $500 if he ends up guilty. Ill take the risk that there are no text messages uncovered between him and the ex wife talking about shooting the guy.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 6:11 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Yeah I don’t understand why he isn’t at least acknowledging how this changes things. There were heated words and verbal threats, but it wasn’t until this warning shot was fired that things turned physical.
it turned physical when the victim decided to approach the armed shooter on his porch and initiate physical contact in a very threatening manner.
Posted on 11/28/21 at 6:30 pm to diat150
quote:
The shooter was well within his right to get his weapon. The fact that the guy attacked him even though he was armed just goes to show that the victim was a lunatic.
You gun nuts are frickin lunatics; the shooter was so scared he went inside and grabbed a gun and even fired a warning shot lmao. He committed aggravated assault at minimum by firing into the ground.
This case is insane and the fact that so many on this board defend this shooter is fricking insane.
There was no need to grab a gun in this situation; it was unnecessary provocation and the shooter needs to go away forever.
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