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Posted on 5/21/25 at 8:10 am to roadGator
Yeah, I gathered that. Thanks.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 8:10 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
and there is NO coexistence with that, but obviously the west has still not learned the lessons
The West will never awaken and suppress this threat. The End of Time will come before the West awakens to this threat.
Perhaps it is Bible Prophecy?
Posted on 5/21/25 at 8:18 am to Mike da Tigah
We've let millions of Muslims emigrate here legally. When are we going to start removing them? 9/11 should have been enough to start mass removal regardless of citizenship status.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 8:19 am to Narax
quote:
And everyone of the regions I listed was taken with at least some battles, while the Germanic tribes were only pushed back and at times just beyond the Rhine
Yes but what does that have to do with Islam being a specifically nasty religious war causing religion?
I think what he is saying is that Christianity was also mostly spread by the sword. There was no Christianity in Britain until the Romans conquered Britain and then became Christian.
The Christians usually did not resort to forcing individuals to convert at the point of the sword, but the area was Christianized due to invasions.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 8:21 am to tide06
quote:
I mean they were made Roman through bloody conquest in the name of pagan gods like Jupiter and Mars
Who were made Roman? Muslims? That religion didn't exist until a few hundred years after the fall of Rome.
The Levant was already Christian and Jewish at the time of Rome.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 8:22 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
blast Christendom for the crusades
The crusades were just and right.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 8:22 am to tide06
quote:
Today? Yes, you are absolutely correct. Christianity is a religion of peace and Islam a religion of violent expansion.
During the periods referenced by the OP? Absolutely not.
I base this on what the Bible says and what the Koran says, and the two could not be more dissimilar. Man can and does misrepresent what the core beliefs are, usually for their own gain, but you go to the source to find out what the faith actually means, and both are clear. An ardent Christian will tell you that none are good, including himself and in need of Christ to save them from what they deserve, following up with the hope for mankind and all you do is accept that free gift as instructed in scripture. An ardent Islamist doesn’t really care if you believe or not, live or die, just that you submit as instructed in the Koran. The truth of both are found in their foundations, not necessarily in the actions of man.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 8:25 am to Mike da Tigah
God bless the Crusades!
Posted on 5/21/25 at 8:41 am to Snipe
quote:Its in the book, all out in the open and they speak openly about their intentions and purpose. I’ve never understood why the west pretends that Islam/muslims are capable of living side by side with non-Muslims.
It's never been really hidden.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 10:06 am to Mike da Tigah
Islam is a religion that is in desperate need of a New Testament to explain to those of the faith that they need to love their neighbors regardless of their faith, leave the kids alone and chill the F out.
Because as its currently understood and was originally written it’s simply not compatible to coexist within a Christian nation with western values.
Because as its currently understood and was originally written it’s simply not compatible to coexist within a Christian nation with western values.
This post was edited on 5/21/25 at 10:21 am
Posted on 5/21/25 at 11:43 am to Mike da Tigah
I'm not going to argue his point, but forced conversion usually came right after big battles, but overall if you look nat the Levant and Egypt, there were always sizeable Christian minorities. Copts usually constituted about 20% of Egypt's population. In Lebanon Christians were the majority until 1975. Syria had a sizeable Christian population as well. Assad used to use them as political leverage....as a protector even.
Now, where they went overboard was in Persia where forced conversion of whole populations were the norm. In Asia Minor, the Turks begin a wholesale invasion of the place around 1100. Rape and pillaging was the norm. The Turks made the Arabs look like choir boys in that respect, especially the Seljuks.The Ottomans were pretty tolerant as it applied to their European subjects although there was some involved especially in the impressing of young men from noble houses from their vassal states. Ottomans in general became more interested in empire from a political standpoint. Example: Vlad the Impaler was brought up on the Ottoman court but never converted....although his brother did and Mehmet had no problem with it. Jews were the main guys in the Ottoman bureaucracy during the Ottoman empire and were not harassed much at all.
Byzantines were kind of the same way with conquered peoples. They very much wanted to convert them, but were kind of lenient with their foederati "mercenaries". They were less tolerant with heretics though. They HATED monophysites....although cut the Copts in Egypt a lot of slack.
The Islamic invaders were not good guys, but they were not as bad as suggested. The historical truth is more complicated.
Now, where they went overboard was in Persia where forced conversion of whole populations were the norm. In Asia Minor, the Turks begin a wholesale invasion of the place around 1100. Rape and pillaging was the norm. The Turks made the Arabs look like choir boys in that respect, especially the Seljuks.The Ottomans were pretty tolerant as it applied to their European subjects although there was some involved especially in the impressing of young men from noble houses from their vassal states. Ottomans in general became more interested in empire from a political standpoint. Example: Vlad the Impaler was brought up on the Ottoman court but never converted....although his brother did and Mehmet had no problem with it. Jews were the main guys in the Ottoman bureaucracy during the Ottoman empire and were not harassed much at all.
Byzantines were kind of the same way with conquered peoples. They very much wanted to convert them, but were kind of lenient with their foederati "mercenaries". They were less tolerant with heretics though. They HATED monophysites....although cut the Copts in Egypt a lot of slack.
The Islamic invaders were not good guys, but they were not as bad as suggested. The historical truth is more complicated.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 12:08 pm to KiwiHead
Christians and Jews were somewhat tolerated by Islam initially due to their belief in the books of Moses and David (Jews and Christians) and the Gospels (Christians), but both groups were taxed and experienced severe localized persecution in Muslim-dominated areas. Christians were not allowed to evangelize Muslims and Muslims converting to Christianity were to be executed.
Islam spread by the sword. The tales of captives taken by Muslim invaders were harrowing, even if not unique to Islam.
Islam spread by the sword. The tales of captives taken by Muslim invaders were harrowing, even if not unique to Islam.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 1:17 pm to FooManChoo
I did not say they were anywhere close to angels. They weren't. But they did not involve themselves in intense forced conversion.
Islam was somewhat attractive to a lot of people in the Levant who did NOT live in cities like Antioch and Damascus. Christianity had a lot of b.s. involved with it and the Romans and Christianity become intertwined. Roman/Byzantines were not all that tolerant of their subjects converting from Christianity...hell, they weren't all that fond of heretics from the orthodoxy. Lot's of riots in places like Constantinople, Antioch and Alexandria regularly....read about the Greens and the Blues. Read about what Justinian did to Pagans, Jews, Manicheans and other groups....he and other emperors did not broker error on a theological level. Justinian had no qualms about killing them.
Christians evolved to not be as cruel as the Muslims, but they could be pretty cruel. Where Christianity really excels though, even historically was with the role of women. High birth women had a lot of influence. Theodora was every bit the equal in terms of a forceful personality as Justinian was. Both tried to crack down on trafficking of women for prostitution, for example.
Islam was somewhat attractive to a lot of people in the Levant who did NOT live in cities like Antioch and Damascus. Christianity had a lot of b.s. involved with it and the Romans and Christianity become intertwined. Roman/Byzantines were not all that tolerant of their subjects converting from Christianity...hell, they weren't all that fond of heretics from the orthodoxy. Lot's of riots in places like Constantinople, Antioch and Alexandria regularly....read about the Greens and the Blues. Read about what Justinian did to Pagans, Jews, Manicheans and other groups....he and other emperors did not broker error on a theological level. Justinian had no qualms about killing them.
Christians evolved to not be as cruel as the Muslims, but they could be pretty cruel. Where Christianity really excels though, even historically was with the role of women. High birth women had a lot of influence. Theodora was every bit the equal in terms of a forceful personality as Justinian was. Both tried to crack down on trafficking of women for prostitution, for example.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 1:25 pm to Lightning
quote:
All the screaming about “white colonizers” while Islamic Arab conquest and colonialism gets a free pass.
And absolving the Islamists of there atrocities (9/11, the Gaza conflict) while blaming the Joos.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 1:29 pm to Mike da Tigah
His book, Sword and Scimitar, is an excellent read. In case anyone is looking for a summer read.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 3:14 pm to SallysHuman
quote:
His book, Sword and Scimitar, is an excellent read. In case anyone is looking for a summer read.
I just stumbled on this podcast yesterday and then immediately got his audiobook.
I haven’t started the book yet, but I don’t think Ibrahim is trying to argue that the Romans or the Christians were angels. I think he’s trying to argue that Muslims are not the historical innocent victims that many try to portray them as today. Islam was spread by conquest, and to many in the Muslim world the war has never ended.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 4:25 pm to Lightning
quote:The Islamist came very close to conquering the entire Western Civilization. I listened to that whole podcast, and that guy knows his stuff and doesn't sugarcoat anything.
All the screaming about “white colonizers” while Islamic Arab conquest and colonialism gets a free pass.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 4:28 pm to Penrod
quote:
I think what he is saying is that Christianity was also mostly spread by the sword. There was no Christianity in Britain until the Romans conquered Britain and then became Christian.
The Romans conquered Britain when it was still a death penalty to be a Christian
I mean this is factually wrong. It's off by 400 years.
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