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Women can murder, so they can also forfeit their lives.

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/14/26 at 3:48 pm to
quote:

I've experienced these things for myself, and it's described in John 14. That is the reason I'm able to see the father within Jesus. I don't need Jesus to say it, I see it already.
You don't see Jesus in the Father and the Father in Jesus, because you don't know what that means. You think it means that Jesus acts like the Father by obeying the commandments rather than having a unique relationship within the godhead. Jesus accepted worship. We shouldn't, because we are not God. It's why you can use a word like "idolatry" when talking about Jesus, because you know that we aren't to worship anyone but God and you don't believe Jesus is God.

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God is pure consciousness. Without God there is no experience, no reality, there is only data, there is no experience of data. The beginning and the end.
God is not "pure consciousness". He's a pure spirit and being who is conscious. He is a triune being from whom and through whom all things have been created, both those with consciousness and those things without it.

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Your soul is also God. A limited version of the father. That limitation is in your flesh. That which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit. Or another way is to see that consciousness is not a product of the universe/creation.
No, my soul is not also God. It's created. God is uncreated and He has created all that has been created, including you and me.

No, I am not a limited version of the Father. If I or my soul were God, then I would be the exact imprint of His nature, not a limited version of Him. It's why Jesus is said to be the exact imprint of God's nature, because He is God: He shares the one essence of divinity.

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These limitations are done for the experience, and to grow from it. For example, a bird is only a bird when it's in that limitation. If you took your experience and then became a bird, you're not a bird, you're a man in a birds body.
People do not take on different natures. The Father doesn't have a human nature, either. Only the Son has taken on a human nature, but He retained His divine nature. He isn't merely God in a human body, but He has both a divine (God) nature and a human nature, both at the same time. He is fully God and fully man.

Your gnosticism is showing. Many gnostics had this sort of view of the "divine spark" that existed in men. Your particular brand also seems to add in some sort of pantheism, where God is in or part of all things, or at least humans.

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Which modern computers this is easily demonstrated in a video game. Where you take your consciousness and you entire into another reality. A reality where the laws and restrictions of that universe dictate what actions you can take. Of course you are not actually those characters in that game the same way you wouldn't be a bird. In order to do that, you'd need to limit yourself down to only that which is known in that universe/creation.
See above.

Also, the video game is not me and does not have my consciousness. I am me, and my consciousness allows me to manipulate the video game. The video game is still the video game, and I am still me. There is no combination of the two here any more than if I pulled strings of a puppet, that the puppet would take on my consciousness.

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And that is what you are a product of right now in this creation. That piece of God is within, but you only see the physical and know the physical. It's within all. You are the son, and the kingdom of God is within.
False. I am an adopted son of God, not sharing the same essence with Jesus (the Son) or God the Father.

Jesus had to be without sin because He is God, and God cannot sin. If I am God, then God is unholy, because I sin.

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This is within all, and this is why doing bad things to other people is a sin against God. You are doing those things to God within them. If there is a soul, then this exists in them.
False. In Zechariah 12:1, we read that God formed man's spirit in him. It doesn't say God's spirit was placed in him, but that man has his own spirit.

The reason why it's bad to do do bad things to other people is because God made man in His image (Gen. 9:6), and therefore God owns all people. To disobey God and murder also stealing, as it seeks to destroy God's property without His permission.

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Where as you are blinded, Jesus had these connections unlocked.
If I am God, how is it that I'm blinded? How can God be blind?

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Going back to the video game, imagine if everyone else in the video game had no idea they were anything other than the character in the video game. But then 1 person had what you have know, knowledge and understanding that they weren't just that. That is what Jesus was. And what he describes in John 14 is that unlocking for others. I know it's true because I experienced it.
:lol: no...

Jesus said that He came to give His life as a ransom, not to merely be a prophet that explains how to leave the Matrix. Jesus died to accomplish the forgiveness of sins.

In John 14, Jesus didn't say to the disciples that if they have seen themselves or each other, that they have seen the Father. He said that if they have seen Him (Jesus), then they have seen the Father.

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And the holy spirit has no label, it's just God. But I understand what is trying to be expressed here, because you can't actually see the full of God as your limitation would be destroyed completely.
God's Word declares that the Spirit is the Spirit, and is a person.

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But the father is much greater because the father is without limitation. The father is in me, that was the first thing I learned/understood. But the father is my greater than I am.
You do not have the Father because you do not have the Son. You don't have the Son because you reject Him as being God, and the Christ who takes away sins.

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And that's why when they took up to stone Jesus, look at what he quoted to them Psalm 82:6.
They tried to stone Him because Jesus made Himself to be God. Jesus didn't deny that He was God, but was making an argument from the lesser to the greater: if the ones that God has given the word of God could be called "gods", how can the one that God had sanctified and sent not also use that term?

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What you've done is just demonstrated to me that you do not remotely understand the father and son relationship or what you call the trinity. You instead make it into an idol where Jesus is God and have no understanding.
I follow Jesus' own teaching. He didn't teach that each one of us has the divine spark. He taught that He and the Father are one by nature, and that we will be received by the Father for the sake of the Son if we believe in His life, death, and resurrection by faith. Jesus wasn't a gnostic.
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Why wouldn't you guys feel insecure when your QB had to be damn near perfect for you to win by 3....
He was near perfect on 3rd downs. He also threw an INT—though that was more a good play by the defender—and nearly another.

He played well, but UGA also left points on the board. Missed a chip-shot FG and had a TD negated with a dumb penalty that resulted in 3 points instead of 7. Cleanup those two self-destructive plays alone and it’s a 10-point win on the road.

There were several other messy plays and penalties that cost or allowed points that could be cleaned up for a rematch, too, so there is a lot to feel positive about as a Dawg fan, and that is not even mentioning the fact that we may get more starters back on offense by then.

I should mention that I’m not trying to play the what-if game here, as you can do that on every play and have a drastically different result, including a possible blowout for Alabama. I’m just saying that it was far from a perfect game for Georgia and they still came out with a road win against one of the very best teams in CFB, so there is room for optimism.

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/13/26 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

You start out by telling me you've accepted something is true and that is the only place for answers for you.

But that is instead your blinder. A restriction you have placed on yourself.
You're doing the same thing. You believe you've received a personal visitation by God, and that's the only way you can know the truth. You reject the Bible as God's Word, or the words of others who claim to have had other visions or revelations of God.

You are doing the same thing you're accusing me of doing.

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And your claims of me contradicting myself are just baseless accusations. There is a reason why you don't name specific things. You just say that because I don't accept the bible is the word of God or that the chosen books for some reason are all true or all false, as if it's impossible for a combination.

If you have specific things, I'll address them.
I've been addressing them. For one, you have said that no one should listen to you but to God. Then you turn around and say you are teaching the truth revealed by God. Which is it? Should we listen to you or not? Seems like a contradiction.

Also, you seem to now being saying that the Bible is not the word of God, but then quote from it when you think it is or supports the word of God as you understand it. You are cherry-picking from the Bible based on what you already believe to be true. You are no different than the Muslim or Jehovah's Witness that has a belief system handed to them from another source outside the Bible, and then use the Bible to show where their other source is true through selective passages pulled out from its context. If the Bible contains God's Word, then you need to provide the standard for how I or anyone else can know what is what, otherwise you're just asking us to trust you alone that you know what's right.

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The entire book of acts is Paul trying to become an authority. He even tries to create territories for his authority. He is THE thing that you actually follow and the mask that gets put on Jesus to change what he actually said.
That's factually not true. He's sharing the word of God that he received. It's not his own word, and he even was tested by the other apostles of Jesus and was approved. Peter even said that his words are scripture.

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You should NOT believe me. You should understand me. To believe me is to make me an authority. To understand me is to be your own authority. What good will come of you believing me? Nothing. The only thing good that can come for you is to for something to remove your blinders.
This is absurd, and shows that you don't even know what basic language is.

If I believe you, it means that I believe the words you are saying. It means I believe what you are saying is true. It doesn't mean I am seeing you as an authority, but that you are speaking the truth from a true authority.

It's incredible that you don't even get that right, because if no one believed you, then they wouldn't believe what you said. When you teach that we are supposed to obey the commandments of God (which commands, again?) for eternal life, then you are making a truth claim. Either someone believes you (and the claim) or not, and if no one believed you, it means they don't believe the claim you are making. Therefore, it would be pointless for you to tell anyone anything at all if you didn't expect--or even want--anyone to believe you.

Again I say, your beliefs are irrational.

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And your claims about Matthew 13 are ridiculous and backwards.

You're basically claiming God deliberately plugs peoples ears and blocks them from understanding so they don't repent. Jesus spoke in parables to unlock understanding, not to hide it.
No, you're the one who has it backwards, as you do with everything in the Bible, it seems.

Jesus specifically told His disciples it was given to them to understand the truth, but it wasn't given to others. He quoted Isaiah in order to support His statement, and that passage in Isaiah is God telling the prophet that He would harden the people's hearts until the right time. You aren't even reading the text.

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Jesus it almost the only person I quote.
Yeah, because you keep quoting the same verse over and over again to the exclusion of so many other things Jesus said.

I hope you've seen the pattern: I'm supporting my views (and contradicting yours) by quoting the gospel writings primarily. I'm not going to Paul to support what I'm saying, even though his writings are God-breathed. I'm showing you that you are wrong by the same books you seem to be OK with quoting.

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Outside that it's the parts of the Torah that address understanding and wisdom almost always.
AKA, cherry-picking.

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Faith isn't some lazy mental agreement. That's what you have. You just have to say "Jesus is lord" and believe he died for your sins. To say you have faith in Jesus while ignoring his direct command to keep the commandments is completely hollow.
You are wrong yet again. I haven't said such a thing at all. I actually agree with you that saving faith is not mere mental agreement or assent, but it includes trust. Such trust will manifest itself with obedience. I keep saying that, but you keep forgetting or ignoring me.

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If you have faith in a master builder, you do what the master build said - their blueprint. You don't sit around and worship the guy because of what he built and claim that's what builds it for you because you lack the ability.
I'm not going to worship just any builder, but if the master builder claims to be God as Jesus did, then I will worship Him and do what He commanded.

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I told you how people can be forgiven. It can happen instantly in some cases if the people lacked understanding and gain it. Those with ears heard. It does basically come instantly in that moment when you repent. So when someone accepts this is the way, they are repenting in the process.
Accepting that obedience is the way is not actually obeying, though. At least, it's not keeping all the commandments. It's merely assenting to the way, as you believe it to be.

This is another contradiction I see: you say that all commandments must be kept for forgiveness, but then say forgiveness can happen with merely acknowledging that the way is through obedience. It's a contradiction. Many people acknowledge that obedience to the law will save them, and yet they don't keep the law. Acceptance alone doesn't forgive, right? So which is it? Acceptance or obedience?

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Furthermore, you are admitting that the blood sacrifice was not required.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that faith in Jesus as the Messiah--who takes away sins, as John the Baptist proclaimed--leads to forgiveness of sins. These people in the Bible believed that Jesus was the promised Messiah who would take away iniquity (sin-guilt), and that Messiah was prophesied in Isaiah 53. The people believed it and Jesus forgave their sins based on what He came to do. His death secured the forgiveness that He promised them.
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I’d bet the consensus of regular folks would be that if you say babies deserve to be tortured for eternity, most regular folks would say you are depraved and sick in the head.
Maybe they would, but because you still don't understand the difference between subjective and objective standards, you make this statement as if it matters to me.

In your perverse and irrational worldview, morality is nothing more than mere opinion because of its subjective nature. Therefore, whether it is one person or all persons saying something is immoral, it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't mean that thing is actually (objectively) immoral. It just means that a lot of people prefer one flavor of ice cream over another.

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Well no you see you are confused because you are convinced you live in a false reality due to psychotic delusions.
I don't think you understand the difference between a religious belief and a psychotic delusion, but I've come to expect that from you. You have just enough knowledge of things to make yourself sound credible, but not enough knowledge to really know what you're talking about.

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It’s called euhemerization. It’s a process by which a deity is given a fictive story and set as a historical human
Ah, I see. You have given a name to your rejection of history that most other atheists even accept.

You're closer to being described as having psychotic delusions than I am. At least there is historical evidence for Jesus :lol:

[qoute]No it’s not that. You’re confused because you don’t know what it’s like to take an unbiased look at evidence and reach a conclusion based on the facts rather than clinging to a dogmatic position.[/quote]And all those other atheists that accept that the evidence points to Jesus are mistaken? You and like a dozen other people are on the right side, understanding without bias. Got it :lol:

You come on this board every day finding posts about Christianity to insert yourself into in order to contradict it. To claim you lack bias on this subject is absolutely absurd, but that's par for the course for you. You have an irrational worldview.

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That’s simply a baseless and stupid assertion without any evidence to back it up. I shite on your baseless assertions.
It's based on the Bible as evidence. You can reject it, but it's not baseless.

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/13/26 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

He fulfills God laws. He breaks the laws of men constantly. By filling them he shows the path, which was confused by the pharisess/scribes via scripture, traditions and...rituals.

I never once said God commanded anything - you say that.
God commanded the sacrifices in the Old Testament through Moses. Jesus upheld those laws.

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Jesus taught people they were the authority. And saying someone accepted it is hardly saying they demanded it or expected it. They showed respect.
From the beginning of His earthly life (Matt. 2:11) to the end of His ministry (Matt. 28:9, 17), He received worship.

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The father is much greater than Jesus. To say the father is in him - and he is, I can see the father, is not to claim the son is the father. Everyone with a soul is a son/daughter of God, because that's what your soul is. And that is why the kingdom of God is within. And that's why you are the authority, and that is why it is up to you to seek it.

And this is also what he tells the Pharisees in response if you keep reading.
You are a blind unitarian. You don't even understand the biblical claim that Christians believe. Jesus is God, but Jesus is NOT the Father. There are not three gods, but only one God. That one God is not sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son, and sometimes the Spirit, but He is the Father, Son, and Spirit as three different persons.

Jesus is co-equal with the Father, and only took on a subordinate role in His humanity, by veiling His glory with a human nature. He was almost stoned because the Jews understood that Jesus was making Himself equal with the Father (John 5). They again tried to stone Him in John 10 because they understood Him saying He and the Father are one as being equality of essence with God. In John 14, Jesus says that if you've seen Him, you've seen the Father, because they are both God. In Matthew 28, Jesus said He shares the one name of God, Father, Son, and Spirit.

I could go on, but you again show your ignorance of the Bible.

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It means to clarify. That is what the path is, a clarification on how to keep the commandments. An example to follow. If you take on an apprentice or trainee, you show them how to do the job by example. They will follow you and from your example they will learn.
:lol: no it doesn't.

Fulfillment is a terminus. It's the end of the journey that the road signs pointed to. The signs clarify the way, and the destination is the fulfillment of the journey.

You can't even get that one right.

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In doing that, you also show the ways NOT to do it. The things that are incorrect. Instead of stoning the sinner, forgive them etc. And that is why Jesus and the Pharisees had discussions almost EXACTLY the same way we are. Where you quote scripture, claim I am of the devil and so forth to dare go against your view of the scripture.
Not at all. They weren't quoting the Scripture but their own man-made traditions. You can't even quote the Scripture because you don't believe the Scriptures are relevant, or even that they exist as anything from God, except where they possibly confirm your gnostic heretical views.

Jesus used the Scriptures over and over again against the Pharisees, as I'm doing with you. You don't even accept the Scriptures.

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I wouldn't say his sacrifices were garbage. If a man see's a child in the street about to get hit by a car, and that man runs out, pushes that kid out of the way and gets killed by the car, that man made a sacrifice. In fact, that man made the ultimate sacrifice. But it wasn't the sacrifice that saved the child and it's dumb to worship the sacrifice is what saved the kid rather than the actual actions the man took which resulted in his death of being that which saved them.

Talking about how great the man was while wearing a BMW symbol around your neck is a huge misunderstanding on the mans actions, their purpose and is somewhat insulting to the man at the same time.
Your analogy is awful.

What the Bible teaches would be more like this: a person is sentenced to death by being run over by a car for the crimes they committed. Jesus willingly accepts the death sentence, Himself, in order for the other person to be forgiven and set free. Jesus then gets hit by the car, dies, and then raises Himself to life 3 days later.

You make Jesus' sacrifice to be nothing but incidental and just one of many sacrifices that anyone can make at any time. Jesus claimed to be God and was sent to die to forgive sins, not merely be a good example. No one can forgive sins like Jesus.

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/13/26 at 3:12 pm to
quote:

I can not change your heart to make you someone who seeks.
I already seek God. I do so by His Spirit, which resides within me, and through His Word, and especially through the incarnate Word, Jesus Christ. I'm hungry for His Word.

What I'm not seeking is your false report, received (allegedly) in private, and is contradicted by many other claims of visions. You expect me to believe you but have no shown any evidence that you were spoken to by God rather than a demon or just had a hallucination.

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I can not give you understanding directly, not even Jesus could. That's the purpose of the holy spirit. I can only do what Jesus did and that is to speak in ways those with ears can hear. That is not you.
I agree with that notion that only the Holy Spirit can give eyes to see and ears to hear, but unlike you, I the Bible teaches that the Spirit works through the preaching of the Word of God. God gave ministers to proclaim the good news, and we should listen to them, as the Spirit testifies in our own hearts to the truth of what they proclaim.

What you have said is that you're just a man and that no one should listen to you. You contradict the Scriptures, and even yourself, because you say not to listen to you, but then say you can speak in ways that those with ears can hear. Should we listen to you or not? You've said both things, so far. Which version of you should we listen to?

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To make myself your authority would be the same stupid shite Paul does. All glory goes to the father, not me. I would never in a million years try to replace the holy spirit or the father.
Is that what you think Christians do? Is that what you thought Paul did? Paul, himself, that he was just a messenger of Christ, and that if he or even an angel from God said something contrary to the gospel that was already revealed, that he should be cursed from God.

Your ignorance of Paul never ceases to amaze me.

Even so, you can teach people the truth and still give God the glory for it. It's what Christians seek to do all the time.

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I have never once said my experience and understanding came from some random person on the internet, and I'm certainly not telling you that it should.
No, you said it came from a private revelation. You've given no reason to believe you.

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In Matthew 13, the disciples asked Jesus why he only spoke in parables. He told them directly that he spoke that way because people look but don't see, and hear but don't understand.
I think you misunderstood Jesus. He was saying that He spoke in parables so that they would not understand. He specifically tells His disciples that it has been given to them (as a gift) to know what Jesus was teaching, while to others, it has not been given. Jesus was speaking in parables on purpose so that He wouldn't be as clearly understood by everyone.

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Even Jesus recognized that as a human, he was limited to words. He couldn't magically force understanding into someone's brain. He could only expose the understanding a person already had. That's why he constantly said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
In Matthew 13, Jesus quoted Isaiah 6, who was commissioned by God to preach to the people, but God would harden their hearts and stop up their hearing so they would not hear and understand. It was actually God preventing the people from hearing.

By contrast, Jesus told His disciples in Matthew 13 that it was a gift that they heard and understood; they had the knowledge because God allowed it.

This corresponds with Matthew 11, where Jesus actually thanked the Father for hiding the truth from some and revealed it only to those whom He gave Jesus.

In Mark 4, Jesus actually says that God doesn't reveal the truth to some so that they do not repent and receive forgiveness.

John 8 records Jesus saying that some do not understand because they are not of His flock, and likewise in John 10.

God is the one who opens eyes and ears and soften hearts to the truth, but He does so by His Spirit working through the preaching of the Word.

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I cannot "save everyone" because I cannot force an closed mind to open. I can only speak to those who have ears. You are projecting some fantasy onto me because you think a text can magically fix people, but true wisdom recognizes human limitations.
I'm just calling you out on your contradictions. You've said in the past that no one should listen to you, and now you're saying you're just preaching the truth for the sake of others. Which should we do?

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You keep shouting Paul's dogmas at me, while I am content to simply listen to Jesus: "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." I'll stick with Jesus.
You won't stick with Jesus because you don't even know Jesus, nor do you accept everything written about Him.

You reject the many passages where Jesus forgave sins or offered forgiveness for faith alone, not works. Over and over again, He healed people saying "your faith has made you well", or offered salvation and eternal by believing in Him alone.

Either He contradicted Himself, or you are misunderstanding the one passage that you keep quoting. Spoiler alert: you misunderstand.

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/13/26 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

This is all bullshite. Jesus thought the sacrifices were missing the point and said so.
He said He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. The ceremonial law (the sacrifices, etc.) were part of the law He said He came to fulfill.

How does He fulfill it if it's garbage? From my reading of the Scriptures (the historic reading within Christianity), Jesus fulfilled those laws by being the sacrifice they pointed to.

In your interpretation, God commanded sacrifices that didn't actually do anything (sacrifices aren't needed, only repentance) and don't point to anything. So why were they commanded?

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More bullshite. Nothing of actual substance, just idol worshiping. The very things Jesus spoke against.
You do realize that Jesus accepted worship, right? He said He and the Father were one, and He accepted worship as God. Do you disagree?

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More bullshite and excuses for made up traditions and rituals of man, which Jesus posed and fulfilled the law to separate that which was of God and that which was the bullshite of men.

And it's just more of the same usual bullshite from you, so I'm going to skip to the bottom.
Again, what do you think the word "fulfilled" means? Jesus said He didn't abolish it, but fulfilled it. What you are saying seems to be more of abolition rather than fulfillment, since you seem to think Jesus thought the sacrifices were garbage. Where do you get that?

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You don't repent for shite. What you ask for is a blind eye. The rich man would have also loved that blind eye.

But none will be given. And you will be turned away just like that rich man - probably worse honestly.
I do repent. I repent of greed, lust, pride, unrighteous anger, idolatry, false worship, and other things of the heart as the Westminster Confession of Faith lays out in great detail from the Scriptures.

You are the one with the blind eye. You make Christ's death of no account because you think Jesus was just an example to follow, even though He didn't teach anything that you couldn't also get from the Old Testament (from your own perspective, at least).
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You are sick and depraved to say that babies deserve eternal conscious torment. You’re an unreasonable person who promotes unfairness and injustice based on your own psychotic delusions. I sincerely hope you get the help you need.
Again, I am only "sick" according to your subjective opinion. I don't care about that at all.

2) I am not unreasonable. I actually have a basis for reason, itself. You, on the other hand, are clearly unreasonable, because you can't even accept the historical reality of the existence of Jesus, when the vast majority of your skeptical atheist intellectuals can even admit that. You are the unreasonable one.

3) The only fairness that exists is God's justice, which you will receive for eternity if you do not repent of your sins and believe in Jesus for forgiveness.

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/13/26 at 9:56 am to
quote:

Stop using Dan Brown novels to excuse your fake history.
I'm not. I've actually read many history books and read the sources. There were lists of the Biblical cannon compiled long before Constantine. You are simply incorrect, and it's not even debatable. The Church had the books of the Bible long before the Roman government became friendly to Christianity.

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The fact of the matter is there were multiple sects after Jesus and the reason the Pauline version won out is because people would rather have a free gift than to actually follow Jesus.
There is no Pauline version of Christianity. There is only Christianity.

I know you like to keep parading your ignorance about this, but Paul actually agreed with Jesus. Over the past several weeks and months, I have been able to use Jesus' own words to support the teachings found clearly in Paul's writings. You need to get over this hatred for Paul, because he didn't teach a different Christianity.

You'll need to show evidence of your claims if you disagree.

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The books were then chosen to act as a mask over what Jesus said to create and solidify the notion that people could just believe in the sacrifice and not worry about keeping the commandments, or gain the understanding required to do it.
The Church already circulated the books known to be from the apostles and their disciples from very early on in church history. You make it sound like everything was up in the air and there was no consensus whatsoever as to what Christianity was and what books were Scripture until Constantine came along. That's just not historically accurate.

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You yourself demonstrate this in action as you constantly call me a heretic. Only you don't have the authority to kill me for saying these things.
I call you a heretic because the Scriptures support the claims of the Church that condemned gnostic teachings about Jesus and the Trinity.

You deny essential truths about Christianity, so yes, you're a heretic. You reject Christianity out-right, and only agree with selective verses from the Bible that you think support your views.

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Dude, I've had my entire consciousness pulled into another realm and stood before God. You are out of your league.
:lol:

If that were true, you would be on a mission to save the souls of anyone you could. You would be teaching your works-righteousness to whoever would listen. Instead, you tell people not to listen to you at all. You contradict yourself and don't have the slightest bit of knowledge about the Bible, even though you claim you have been given understanding. Even Muslim apologists have a better understanding of the Bible than you do.

So no, I don't believe you stood before God. I have no doubt that you have been deceived by some evil spirit--maybe Satan, himself-- and that you believe you met God. Your persona on this forum would say otherwise, as you have not been changed by the encounter with the holy to be holy and set apart in this world. If all one did was observer your remarks on this forum, they would think you were no different from anyone else.

Again I say: repent of your idolatry and worship of demons, and believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God and second person of the godhead. Trust in Him for the forgiveness of your sins, because surely no one will be justified by the works of the law (obeying the commandments).

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/13/26 at 9:46 am to
quote:

His own temple because the father and the Kingdom of God are within - it's true of you too if you have a soul.
It doesn't really matter what was symbolized here, though Jesus was talking about His body being killed and then raised from the dead in three days. The point is that Jesus compared His body to the temple precisely because of the association with sacrifice.

In addition, Jesus upheld the sacrificial system for the Jews by fulfilling the law. In Mark chapter 1, Jesus healed a leper and then told the man to see a priest and do all Moses commanded. Moses commanded sacrifices for the cleansing of lepers in Leviticus 14.

If you say sacrifices are stupid, then you're saying Jesus upheld something stupid.

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Just like the true church is built within, and the rock it's built on is understanding. Understanding which you then use to keep the commandments. And those who actually love God keep the commandments.
The true Church is Christ's people united to Him through faith.

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You make no sense here. You spend an entire paragraph explaining animal blood never actually washed away sin and that God wants love and ethical behavior.

That's exactly my argument. Sacrifice is dumb, what's actually wanted is love - those who love him keep the commandments and that is also obviously ethical behavior.

And what does Jesus teach - keep the commandments, not sacrifice.

So go learn what it means - I desire mercy and not sacrifice.
My point was that the Bible teaches that the sacrifices could never actually cleanse sin from someone's account with God, but that they were commanded to show the need for a once-for-all sacrifice of Jesus.

I'm reading through the Old Testament right now and am in the book of Numbers. There are so many commands about the sacrifices that it's hard to keep it all straight. Blood was flowing all day every day. It was burdensome on purpose, because it showed that there was always a need for them (no one could keep the commandments perfectly), and that God demanded payment for sin according to His justice.

That's why Jesus said His burden was light and easy, because He didn't demand sacrifices like Moses, but only true faith that produces a desire for obedience to Him. It's what Paul calls a living sacrifice in our bodies: we are to live each day for the glory of God in obedience to Him. Our sacrifice is a life lived for Christ.

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Yeah, and then the rest of it explains that you can fix that.
Only by God's grace. The rest of Ezekiel clearly demonstrates this, when God, several times, speaks of the work of God in the hearts of Israel to give them new hearts and put His Spirit in them so that they can obey. He likens them to the dry bones that God raises up and gives life. God saves them by His grace, not by their works. Their works are evidence of that new heart and Spirit that He demands they have (18:31).

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As I have told you many times, to ask for forgiveness is to understand your errors and to no longer do them and if you do that, you will be forgiven.
I know what you've said, and it's still false, no matter how many times you say it.

God does not unilaterally forgive sins. He forgives it based on repentance and trust in the promise of the Messiah, loving God and His promises and trusting Him.

And again, we cannot keep the law perfectly in any respect. We will always continue to sin in some form or fashion because the outward laws are not all there is. We need to also circumcise our hearts and obey from a right motive and desire, and we are to obey the spirit of the law, not just the letter of it. We can't do that, because we always will have some level of lust for the the things of this world, unrighteous pride, and idolatry. Jesus made it clear that it's not just having physical sex with someone who isn't your spouse that causes you to commit adultery, but even the lust of your heart. He was teaching that sin goes beyond the mere letter of the law, and we cannot obey it perfectly. It's why Jesus had to die as a sacrifice (a ransom) for the sins of many.

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It's no different than a parent who only wants their child to fix their mistakes. Once you learn from your mistakes and no longer do them, then you are forgiven.
It's very different. You can't "fix" a "mistake" against God. God is infinitely holy, and you cannot sin against a holy God and expect to be forgiven without justice being satisfied. God is a just God as well as a holy God, and His justice must be satisfied.

That's why Jesus died for the sins of many. It satisfied God's justice and wrath against sin while expressing His loving forgiveness at the same time.

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So if you do that, aka repent for your sins, then you will be forgiven. The moment you do that you will be forgiven.
Repentance is different from obedience. Repentance should lead to obedience, but they are different actions. You keep saying obedience is required, but then say repentance is what forgives sins.

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However make sure you are not asking for a blind eye. To recognize your error, but then keep doing it anyway. You will NOT be forgiven because you have not repented.
I repent daily for my sins against God. Repentance does not mean you will never sin again, though. It's why we are to ask God for His grace in us to put sin to death and to conform us more and more to the image of His Son, Jesus, who was perfect.
Hate of sin is critical to Christianity. God hate’s sin and we are to live what He loves and hate what He hates.

Christians are to act in love towards others, certainly, but we can’t act like there is no place for righteous anger and intolerance of wickedness.
quote:

I lose track of everyone Luther hated and removed from your bibles.
Luther included the deuterocanonical books in his German translation of the Bible.

Learn some history (yes, I know that is ironical).

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/10/26 at 4:26 pm to
quote:

You are confusing consistency with forcing everyone to read the text through your specific theological lens.
No I'm not. I'm reading the text for what it actually says within its context. That's the opposite of what you're claiming: that I'm cherry-picking.

If I were actually cherry-picking, you would be able to explain how rather than just saying that I'm doing it.

You made the claim, now prove it. I've said that multiple times now and you don't actually prove it.

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I don't have to accept everything that was collected by the roman government 1700 years ago as an authority in order to recognize the things Jesus says are true and/or examine the text for myself.
1) The writings were originally written long before they were "collected", and no, they weren't collected by the Roman government, but received by the Christian church. Stop getting your history from Dan Brown novels.

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You just want me to force into your box it's not going to happen.
I just want you to abide by basic rules for grammar and logic.

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This was exactly why I ignore you. I did, multiple times. Even in this thread you talk about the rich man, but you don't quote anything Jesus actually said in Mark 10 except the word ransom, but you'll instead quote tons of other verses out of context to make it mean something else.
All you/ve ever done is touch on Mark 10, but you won't tell me how any of the other verses I cite are cherry-picked. That's my point. You won't because you can't.

And no, I wasn't cherry-picking from Mark 10, either. I even referenced Jesus' comments the came right after the rich man passage as context. You aren't addressing that. You just keep going back to the words in the rich man passage and ignore everything else. That's the definition of cherry-picking.

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The free gift was what the rich man asked Jesus for specifically.
No, he asked for the good work he had to do. That wasn't a gift, but a work. A gift isn't earned. The rich man was asking how he could earn eternal life.

quote:

To what end should I remotely keep this discussion going?
My hope is eventually you'll see the truth, repent of your sins, reject that false god of yours, and believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

Whether you want to continue the discussion or not is of no concern to me.

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/10/26 at 4:19 pm to
quote:

Animal sacrifices were symbolic and stupid. Jesus rejected them, and not because he planned to replace them.
Absolutely they were symbolic. They symbolized the shedding of blood for the remission of sins, just like Jesus said of Himself.

No, Jesus didn't reject them. He even called His own body the temple, which is where the sacrifices were performed.

quote:

I desire mercy, not sacrifice.
Yes, the act of offering animal sacrifices weren't enough, which is about the heart that loves God. The sacrifices were obedience to God, but the problem that God was speaking about in Hosea was that the people did their sacrifices out of duty, not out of a true love for God. If they loved God, they would have obeyed Him when He commanded against the other sins they were committing. Instead, they thought they could do as they pleased, offending God, and then offer sacrifices as if they washed away sin. It's why the author of Hebrews went on to say that there is no removal of sin from the blood of bulls and goats.

No one is saved by obedience, because our obedience cannot make up for our sin.


quote:

Ezekial 18
Perhaps you should also look at the first thing in your quote: The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

That's a reference to the blood-guilt for sin that needs to be paid and which you reject. You think that just by saying "oops, I'll try better next time", that God will forgive sins. Nope.

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/10/26 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

The topics have been discussed, I'm not going to keep looping around with you. I should probably just completely ignore you to be honest.
You keep looping because you aren't actually engaging with all the arguments. You are ignoring those things which go against you and seem to be pretending I never actually said those things. It's why we keep going around and around, and why I keep repeating myself to you.

If I were to guess, I would say it's because you can't do anything with those arguments. You are stuck with "nuh uh; my personal experience doesn't agree with you", or "you are just cherry-picking" (without any support for how I am).

Regardless, it's pretty futile if you aren't going to actually have a discussion. I'm not going to back down from refuting your gnostic views, and I will continue supporting the truth of Christianity, so if you feel compelled to ignore me, go for it.

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You replaced understanding with scripture and that is ultimately your burden.
That's a false dilemma fallacy. I'm not replacing understanding with scripture, but receiving understanding from scripture. You refuse to listen to God's word in the scriptures, which is why you are the one who lacks true understanding.

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You are the one who thinks the bible is the word of God.
Yes, and I'm being consistent with my usage of the Bible. You are the one who isn't. You are free to reject the Bible as God's Word to your own demise, but you can't be intellectually honest by cherry-picking from it. You can't only look at the rich man in Mark 10 but then ignore Jesus' other teachings from Mark or the rest of the Bible.

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The OT/Torah is a collection of books towards 3 areas - wisdom, understanding and history/tradition. I am most interested in 2 of those areas, wisdom and understanding. Not to say history isn't valid, but I'm not Jewish and it's not my history or tradition.
In other words, you are cherry-picking. You admit that you are not "interested" in what they say unless they relate to what you already believe about wisdom and understanding. So yeah, no wonder you reject the teaching about the blood sacrifices.

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You just cherry pick multiple verses to claim he said something other than what he actually said and did.
:rolleyes: then show me how I'm cherry-picking. You can't, so you won't, because I'm not doing that.

Seriously, you can't just keep using the phrase "cherry pick" without explaining how I'm doing so. I'm giving you the specific references so you can look them up on your own.

You are incredible, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Absolute dishonesty on your part, and a violation of the 9th commandment.

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No rich man has ever had a problem with a free gift.
:lol: Really? Are you saying that without exception? I could give you a ton of examples of a free gift that a rich person would reject.
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This is an example of your immorality that you think babies deserve to be violently killed and “eternal judgement” which presumably is eternal conscious torment.
I repeat: all people, including you and me, deserve this fate.

God forgives those who repent and trust in obedience of Jesus in His life and death.

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That was my fault. I have to remember to use your own terms or you’ll have a fit. But to me, the unfair and unjustified violent killing of another human in violation of their free will is murder. I get it though. You think the action performed - if evil - is actually “good” if your deity does it or commands it. It’s a double standard.
It's not just using the terms, but how they are supposed to be used according to biblical theology, which you are claiming you have a problem with.

And no, it isn't calling an evil act good just because God does it. What makes an act evil is God's commandment, based on His on holy character. It's why I made a point of talking about the difference between lawful killing and unlawful killing. Not all killing is "murder", and the circumstances matter. There is no double standard. You just don't understand the concept, or you are purposefully distorting it.

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Foo, come on. Do we have to do this again?
I hope not, but you are rather stubborn in your willful ignorance and rejection of the truth, so I might have to explain it to you yet again.

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He creates evil, and he does evil. And evil in this case (Hebrew “Ra”) literally and contextually means “evil”.
Another example of your lack of basic comprehension of grammar. You do this a lot, so I'm not surprised.

In that verse, the "doing" refers to what He just said: forming light, creating darkness, making peace, and creating evil ("calamity" is a better translation of the Hebrew). It's not another category beyond what He just said.

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So context matters? If context matters, then your morality is subjective.
Nope, that's not how it works.

I explained this already. I know you struggle with basic things like this, so try to keep up:

Murder is objectively immoral and that doesn't change. What constitutes "murder" is based off of lawful vs. unlawful taking of life. Not all taking of life is murder, but just because the application of murder varies, it doesn't mean murder is not objectively immoral, or that it's a subjective standard.

God still defines the definitions, so it's still objective. Subjective would be if the standard changed based on the subject (humans), not the object (God and His standard).

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Dude, you’re simply a moral monster if you support the violent stoning to death of Achan’s children for something their father did. Thank God that shite never really happened, and that story is just a mythical tale.
1) I don't care what you have to say about morality because, by your own admission as an atheist, you have no objective standard to use, and therefore your judgements are nothing more than your opinions. I don't care about your opinions.

2) God is the one who commanded the killing, and He's able to do that because He is the one who controls when and how we die. No one deserves to live because all sin against God, so it's not worse for God to command women and children killed than it is for them to die of cancer or by tripping and falling off a high cliff. God ultimately controls life and death.

3) You still aren't grasping the concept of representative guilt and innocence for sin. I've tried to explain it to you several times, so it seems that you are incapable of understanding it.

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Although it is not a command, if we are to use the example of God’s “objective morality” and “loving nature”, then stoning to death the kids of a thief should be morally permitted and carried out.
No, and I explained why.

I'm taking the time to respond to you in great detail. Why are you ignoring what I'm writing? I already explained the difference between command and example.

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Sure, but when you levy a false accusation against me and you are guilty of the very thing you accuse me of, then that is projection, and it’s something you often do. I hope you can one day become cognizant and aware of your folly so you can improve yourself and be a better person.
I'm not making any false accusation against you. I support everything I say. I explained exactly why you don't consider the difference between proof/evidence and persuasion. You are not persuaded by the many evidences for God's existence, and because of that, you claim there isn't evidence at all. I was just explaining to you the difference between having evidence for something and being convinced that the evidence says what one claims it says. I used the example of the existence of Jesus as a historical figure as an example. Most atheists concede He existed in history due to the abundant evidence, even though you reject it.

So no, it's not projection. You show time and time again that you don't know what words like that mean.
Killing an innocent child = good. Executing a terrorist murderer = bad.

They are wicked and call evil good and good evil.

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/10/26 at 3:28 pm to
quote:

If you truely repent for your sins, you will fix your behavior, you can gain forgiveness and that will lead to being "saved".


"without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." -Hebrews 9:22

re: A prayer to SATAN.

Posted by FooManChoo on 10/10/26 at 3:27 pm to
quote:

Or it's to give understanding so people can keep them. And to give that understanding is to give light to the blind.
No. That's not what Jesus was teaching based on the rest of the Bible, but we've been through this before and I'm not going to argue it all over again. You keep ignoring my arguments, anyway, and only address the things that you think you can comment on. It's willful ignorance at this point.

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Because the entire concept of the blood sacrifice is evil as frick and completely pointless. It's just things people like you say because you are just like the rich man.
Evil? The same God who you like to cherry-pick quotes from in the Old Testament commanded animal sacrifices. We know from the whole of Scripture that those sacrifices typified Jesus who would be the true blood sacrifice for sin, as the blood of animals didn't have enough value to actually take away sin.

Jesus, Himself, said the bread and wine of the Eucharist (updated Passover) represented His body and blood, broken and and shed for the forgiveness of sins. That's sacrifice language.

The only way you can call a blood sacrifice "evil" is to denounce the entire sacrificial system of the Old Testament that God commanded. The only reason why it's evil today is not because it's evil conceptually, but because it denies the sufficiency of Jesus' blood sacrifice for sins.

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Yet Jesus told the rich man he had to keep them perfectly and pointed out the reason why he wasn't instead of just saying - you can't keep them, just wait for me to be murdered.
I've been through this several times. Please read my response and process it this time.

Jesus already knew the hearts and intentions of men, so He tailored His messages to them purposefully to get specific responses.

“But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.” -John 2:24-25

There are several examples of Jesus knowing what others were thinking without hearing them: Mark 2:8; Luke 6:8; Matthew 12:25; Luke 9:47; Luke 7:39, for examples of knowing the thoughts of men.

Jesus knew the true intentions of questions, as well, and responded accordingly.

In this case, Jesus knew that the rich man was given over to his idolatry for his possessions. It's why after the man walked away, that Jesus said it was so hard for those who trust in riches to get to heaven, because their riches are their god.

Jesus didn't engage with that man to save him, just like Jesus didn't engage with the Pharisees so often to save them. The primary purpose was for teaching others, and in this case, it was His disciples that He was teaching.

Jesus knew that man was given over to his idolatry and that he thought that keeping the law was the way to be saved. It's why the man asked what good deed he had to do to be saved. He thought that doing good works (obeying the law) outwardly was sufficient for him, and Jesus was addressing his heart. Jesus responded in-kind to the question by pointing him first to the 2nd table of the law and then to the first. He started with the commandments toward men and then pressed him on his commitment to the first commandment: honoring Jesus as the Lord and God. The man didn't follow Jesus as God, which He was supposed to do, and so he left very sad, because he couldn't give up his true god: his possessions.

Even if you took Jesus' words to the man as you are, the fact that the man didn't obey Jesus only shows how impossible it is to keep the law perfectly for sinners like you, me, and the rich man. That guy thought he had kept the law perfectly (he hadn't), but Jesus exposes him with one command: sell everything and follow after Him. The man could keep every law but that one. And we know that the command was tailored to the rich man, because Jesus doesn't command all people to sell all their possessions.

Jesus knew that the man was a lost cause. It's why He used it as a teaching example. You cannot obey the law to be saved. You need to follow Jesus by faith.

quote:

Because Jesus never once made the claim people couldn't do it. In fact, he says if you believe you will do all he does AND MORE.
You're wrong. Jesus actually did teach the impossibility of mere man keeping the law. Right after the lesson of the rich man, the disciples were concerned for themselves, because if the rich man couldn't keep the law, they didn't hold out hope for themselves. They asked who could be saved if it's so hard for the rich, to which Jesus said, "With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible". He highlighted God's grace in the face of man's inability. That's what Christians believe because that's what Jesus taught.

Jesus also taught that no one can follow Him unless it has been granted by the Father to do so (John 6:44 and John 6:65).

Jesus also taught a new birth as a requirement for the kingdom, not just mere obedience (John 3:3)

Finally, when the crowd that followed Jesus after the miraculous feeding asked Jesus what good work they should do (just like the rich man), Jesus didn't tell them to keep the law. He said, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent"(John 6:28-29).

You need to be able to reconcile the teaching on works (obeying the commandments) and faith. You can't. You keep focusing on one to the neglect of the other. I can reconcile both, since we are to follow Jesus by faith, and true faith comes with a desire to obey the commandments.
quote:

Are you under the impression that Jesus was in a position to "order the guards" to do anything and expect them to follow those orders?
Yes, actually.

Right before the crucifixion, when Jesus was being arrested, He said that if He desired, He could have called down a legion of angels to intervene. If Jesus wanted, He could have ordered to be taken down off the cross and it would have been done.

The point the person was making that you responded to was that Jesus upheld the lawful use of the death penalty for Himself and the criminals next to Him (He didn't attempt to set them free).

To press home that point a little further, before the crucifixion, Jesus was being questioned by Pilate and Pilate told Jesus that he had the authority to crucify Jesus or set Him free, to which Jesus responded by saying that the authority Pilate had existed only because it was given by God. Jesus affirmed Pilate's civil authority to execute criminals. He didn't deny it.