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re: Populism (and Dobbs) is the basis for "muh democracy" rants and ravings from the DEMs
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:44 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's the whole point of having federal rights. They restrain both fedgov AND states
You're half right.
14th Amendment was not enacted to restrain the feds.
2
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:44 am to udtiger
quote:
Slo is a lawyer.
Yes, and you have to make incredibly esoteric (if I'm being respectful, "clever" if I'm not) arguments to claim Dobbs didn't restrict personal rights in the US.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Math doesn't work out the way you think it does. A chunk of Republican voters are in that 60%
So yeah math is hard.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The threat exists but it's more of a theoretical threat and not a real one, at this time.
No shite huh, because Trump didn’t do a single one of those things while in Office and currently isn’t the president.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:46 am to udtiger
I just saw a woman in the park wearing this exact shirt. This is what you're dealing with. 
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:48 am to STEVED00
quote:
I would bet the house that if Dems would propose legal abortion up to 20 weeks then IT WOULD PASS and this would not even be an issue. They don’t want that bc THEY WANT THE DIVISE ISSUE.
They easily could have had the first trimester passed. But nope.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:48 am to udtiger
quote:
14th Amendment was not enacted to restrain the feds.
Are you trying to drift the conversation into an Incorporation discussion or something?
a. Roe wasn't completely reliant on the 14A for its ruling (which doesn't help things in a juridical sense but it it what it is). The foundational cases that paved the way for Roe primarily relied on the 1st and 4th amendments, which do apply to fedgov clearly.
b. DP of the 14A has been ruled to apply to states and fedgov for many decades (and that precedent has not been overruled).
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Basically every study on this finds voter ID laws benefit Republicans. Now you can argue whether or not that's a good thing (or other points like election security), but the fact remains that voter ID laws exclude DEM voters. Felons having their voting restricted? Excludes DEM voters disproportionately. Restricting early voting periods? Excludes DEM voters disproportionately. Restricting mail in voting? Excludes DEM voters disproportionately. Restricting ballot harvesting? Excludes DEM voters disproportionately. Just because these are facts doesn't make a judgment on the merits of the policies either way. But the facts are the facts.
You're using retarded disparate impact logic to make your point. It's comical.
This post was edited on 11/5/22 at 10:50 am
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:49 am to dgnx6
quote:
because Trump didn’t do a single one of those things while in Office
Trump didn't appoint multiple justices of the USSC who voted to overturn Roe?
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:50 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
You're using retarded disparate impact logic to make your point. It's comical.
You're making arguments I didn't make.
Again, I'm not discussing the policy at issue, just the underlying facts.
The facts aren't in dispute.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:51 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Basically every study on this finds voter ID laws benefit Republicans.
Voter ID laws aren't populist, they are the total opposite. I don't see why its even an issue.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:54 am to udtiger
quote:I am well aware of that fact. I may be misreading him, but I suspect that he is making a de facto argument.
But the average voter does not understand this distinction, any more than he understands the distinction between correlation and causationquote:
Slo is a lawyer.
This post was edited on 11/5/22 at 10:56 am
Posted on 11/5/22 at 10:58 am to dgnx6
quote:
They easily could have had the first trimester passed. But nope.
the problem is there's no middle ground. I think most could agree to some reasonable acceptance, but there's two extremes that will continue to dominate the propaganda cycle.
Everything is in extreme these days, histrionics. People are unwilling to yield anything.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 11:01 am to SlowFlowPro
This has been a fun read.
My only addition is that this perceived threat to Democracy is a projection of the lefts “the end justifies the means” approach to enacting policy and silencing opponents onto right wing voters and opposition. They do it…so they fear the right will do the same thing….with the MSM gaslighting this concept along the way.
The fallacy in this argument is that the majority of MAGA, republicans, conservatives, etc. have an ideology based in limited govt, law and order and individual freedom. We don’t want an authoritarian Trump any more than an authoritarian Biden. I’m sure there are some that would love to do this…but it’s not the majority.
If the opposite were true, we could’ve stacked the court under prior administrations…but we didn’t. We could’ve thrown BLM and Antifa organizers in jail without charges for a year….we didn’t. We could’ve stuffed ballot boxes in the 98% of red counties of GA to offset Fulton Cty shananigans….we didn’t. We could’ve sent the AG, DOJ and FBI after leftist groups when the R’s controlled DC…but we didn’t. A right wing SCOTUS could’ve had ruled abortion was illegal….but they didn’t.
See a trend here?
We don’t operate like they do but too many on the left actually believe this stuff because it’s what THEY do when in control.
My only addition is that this perceived threat to Democracy is a projection of the lefts “the end justifies the means” approach to enacting policy and silencing opponents onto right wing voters and opposition. They do it…so they fear the right will do the same thing….with the MSM gaslighting this concept along the way.
The fallacy in this argument is that the majority of MAGA, republicans, conservatives, etc. have an ideology based in limited govt, law and order and individual freedom. We don’t want an authoritarian Trump any more than an authoritarian Biden. I’m sure there are some that would love to do this…but it’s not the majority.
If the opposite were true, we could’ve stacked the court under prior administrations…but we didn’t. We could’ve thrown BLM and Antifa organizers in jail without charges for a year….we didn’t. We could’ve stuffed ballot boxes in the 98% of red counties of GA to offset Fulton Cty shananigans….we didn’t. We could’ve sent the AG, DOJ and FBI after leftist groups when the R’s controlled DC…but we didn’t. A right wing SCOTUS could’ve had ruled abortion was illegal….but they didn’t.
See a trend here?
We don’t operate like they do but too many on the left actually believe this stuff because it’s what THEY do when in control.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 11:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You're making arguments I didn't make.
I directly refuted your list as a function of power consolidation which was your argument.
Stop it. You're failing.
quote:
The facts aren't in dispute.
Yes they are and thoroughly rejected.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 11:04 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
to claim Dobbs didn't restrict personal rights
If you’re a legal positivist then sure. But then the term “right” has very limited meaning.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
People perceive things that aren't true. Hell, a week ago you had people across this country really believing their children were at risk from fentanyl-laced candy
Prob a bad analogy because peoples children have died from fentanyl laced things.
They have child locks on detergent pods now because kids were eating them.
This post was edited on 11/5/22 at 11:06 am
Posted on 11/5/22 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's just an in/out group dynamic (which was referenced in this thread already).
Then stop being inaccurate and portraying these people as concerned about liberty, freedom and apple pie. They’re concerned about abortion, not liberty as a whole. They go authoritarian in a fricking heartbeat when it suits them.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 11:07 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Now, if you want an easy retort,
Everything the dems are accusing republicans of is what the dems are doing. There that was easy.
Why are you tryinto make this complicated. You got guys like bill Maher claiming the republicans are going to impeach Biden continually for two years as an example of this threat. As if we didn’t see them impeach Trump well into Bidens presidency.
The threat to democracy is the threat to our political elite. They are making all this shite up to scare simpletons but the fact is the rise in “populism” is simply people waking up and seeing what they have frankly always thrown in our faces since they have become so blatant about it.
The people electing these potential authoritarians just want to be left alone, not ruled over by geriatric racebaiters that have amassed generational wealth off the backs of Americans.
And frankly, people like you that are trying to obscure this very simple premise, by bringing up things like fricking Hungarian social policy that nobody in the US gives a frick about, provide the structural support for making our issues more complicated than they actually are, providing the fuel they need to push more policy and the back room deals that come with it.
Posted on 11/5/22 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Yes, and you have to make incredibly esoteric (if I'm being respectful, "clever" if I'm not) arguments to claim Dobbs didn't restrict personal rights in the US.
First of all, of course it didn't. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
Second, All the babies who weren't killed since would like to talk to you about their rights being expanded.
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