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McLemore
| Favorite team: | |
| Location: | |
| Biography: | |
| Interests: | |
| Occupation: | |
| Number of Posts: | 34811 |
| Registered on: | 12/8/2003 |
| Online Status: | Not Online |
Recent Posts
Message
quote:
She’s saying we need more holistic programs
I tend to agree with her on that. Violent offenders need to be sent to the hole or down in a hole.
quote:
frick that hack

quote:
I’ve known numerous home schooled kids and parents
Oh, well in that case….
shite, man, I wish I’d known this.
quote:
It’s a boomer movie. No one under the age of 45 likes this movie.
So it’s actually also a Gen-X / oldest millennial movie?
re: Hunter Biden says he’s up to $15M in debt, claims ‘I have no idea’ how to pay that off
Posted by McLemore on 12/23/25 at 9:30 am to Major Dutch Schaefer
Just paint more.
Sorry missed this:
Sorry missed this:
quote:
But, but, but his art!! What happened to his art? Surely, he is still painting or did he run out of shorthairs?
re: Tucker’s wide ranging interview with Matt Gaetz is really worth the listen.
Posted by McLemore on 12/23/25 at 8:35 am to Sassafrasology
quote:
What Does “Antisemitism” Even Mean at This Point?
I don’t know, but it’s definitely growing out of control. /s/
quote:
People who love Trump will believe anything
I’m honored to share a sports board with a mind reader, sage, and a true prophet.
re: People who hate Trump will believe anything
Posted by McLemore on 12/22/25 at 10:16 pm to thebigmuffaletta
It’s sort of like Trump supporters truly believing Michelle Obama is a man. Except not really, because that’s actually true.
re: Screwed Over Attempting a Good Deed
Posted by McLemore on 12/22/25 at 7:01 pm to SuperSaint
quote:
can you get Jesus to pay mine too?
He paid a lot more than that.
There’s a “catch” though: he’s returning to judge the quick and the dead.
The new Coach O. As in Ozempic.
re: Is Vivek Ramaswamy right?
Posted by McLemore on 12/22/25 at 6:21 am to retired_tiger
I guess I should be happy that I have no idea what any of this means or is even about. I don’t know what a Goyper is unless it’s related to a condition of the foot.
quote:
I thought he was smarter than to fall for the lies.
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
quote:
You probably think Chelsea is his biological daughter too, don’t you?
Half sister Rebecca Hubbell!

I used to fall for some infomercials as a teen. Bought the mega memory one of whatever it was called. It sorta worked. I think. Actually, I can’t remember.
re: Devil’s advocate question: if Kiffin is so great, why are current LSU coaches not staying?
Posted by McLemore on 12/18/25 at 8:30 pm to TigerFan244
What’s the 48-hr downvote record?
quote:
Jehovah's Witnesses were on to something. Isn't it them who believe only 144k go to heaven?
Spending eternity with 144k JWs would make hell seem glorious.
meme:
Christian Nationalism (whatever that is): talk to the hand
Sharia Law: ahhhh yisssss
Christian Nationalism (whatever that is): talk to the hand
Sharia Law: ahhhh yisssss
That frigid female makes Lilith Sternin seem like a nubile model of warm fecundity.
Gemini’s turn:
A Rebuttal to the "Conflicting Nativity" Theory
The idea that Matthew and Luke are "conflicting fairy tales" relies on a "hermeneutic of suspicion"—basically assuming the text is wrong unless proven otherwise. However, when we look at the actual historical and cultural context of the first century, the accounts are remarkably harmonious.
1. The Logistics of the Census
The critic claims a census would only require staying put. But the Roman census provincialis was often adapted to local customs. In Judea, land and lineage were inseparable.
• The Egyptian Precedent: A Roman census edict from A.D. 104 (p. Lond. 3.904) ordered everyone to return to their ancestral homes to register their land and family.
• Joseph’s Property: As a descendant of David, Joseph likely held an ancestral claim in Bethlehem. He wasn't traveling 100 miles for no reason; he was traveling to register his legal standing and property for taxation.
2. Archaeology of Nazareth
The claim that Nazareth was empty during this time is factually outdated. Recent excavations by archaeologists like Ken Dark have uncovered mid-first-century dwellings and pottery in Nazareth. It was a small, poor village (hence the "Can anything good come from Nazareth?" comment in John 1), but it was absolutely inhabited.
3. The "House vs. Manger" Myth
Critics often think Matthew (House) and Luke (Manger) contradict. This is a misunderstanding of ancient Judean architecture.
• The Kataluma: In Luke 2:7, the word translated as "inn" is actually kataluma, which means "guest room."
• The Layout: A typical house had a main room, a guest room, and a lower area for animals. The manger was inside the house.
• The Timeline: Jesus was born in the lower section of a family home because the guest room was full. By the time the Magi arrived months later (Matthew 2), the crowds had left and the family had moved into the main living area.
4. Comparison of the Two Accounts
Matthew and Luke aren't "conflicting"; they are focusing on different themes for different audiences:
MATTHEW’S FOCUS (The Jewish Messiah)
• Main Character: Joseph (The legal father/lineage).
• Visitors: The Magi (Gentile kings recognizing a higher King).
• Conflict: Herod’s political jealousy (The "New Moses" escaping a tyrant).
LUKE’S FOCUS (The Universal Savior)
• Main Character: Mary (The biological mother/experience).
• Visitors: Shepherds (The lowly and outcasts).
• Conflict: The Roman Census (The humble birth vs. Imperial power).
Conclusion
Christian little-o orthodoxy treats the Gospels like two different witnesses to the same car accident. One witness might describe the driver, while the other describes the car. They aren't lying; they are providing a fuller picture. When you account for the 1st-century Roman census laws and Middle Eastern house styles, the "contradictions" vanish.
A Rebuttal to the "Conflicting Nativity" Theory
The idea that Matthew and Luke are "conflicting fairy tales" relies on a "hermeneutic of suspicion"—basically assuming the text is wrong unless proven otherwise. However, when we look at the actual historical and cultural context of the first century, the accounts are remarkably harmonious.
1. The Logistics of the Census
The critic claims a census would only require staying put. But the Roman census provincialis was often adapted to local customs. In Judea, land and lineage were inseparable.
• The Egyptian Precedent: A Roman census edict from A.D. 104 (p. Lond. 3.904) ordered everyone to return to their ancestral homes to register their land and family.
• Joseph’s Property: As a descendant of David, Joseph likely held an ancestral claim in Bethlehem. He wasn't traveling 100 miles for no reason; he was traveling to register his legal standing and property for taxation.
2. Archaeology of Nazareth
The claim that Nazareth was empty during this time is factually outdated. Recent excavations by archaeologists like Ken Dark have uncovered mid-first-century dwellings and pottery in Nazareth. It was a small, poor village (hence the "Can anything good come from Nazareth?" comment in John 1), but it was absolutely inhabited.
3. The "House vs. Manger" Myth
Critics often think Matthew (House) and Luke (Manger) contradict. This is a misunderstanding of ancient Judean architecture.
• The Kataluma: In Luke 2:7, the word translated as "inn" is actually kataluma, which means "guest room."
• The Layout: A typical house had a main room, a guest room, and a lower area for animals. The manger was inside the house.
• The Timeline: Jesus was born in the lower section of a family home because the guest room was full. By the time the Magi arrived months later (Matthew 2), the crowds had left and the family had moved into the main living area.
4. Comparison of the Two Accounts
Matthew and Luke aren't "conflicting"; they are focusing on different themes for different audiences:
MATTHEW’S FOCUS (The Jewish Messiah)
• Main Character: Joseph (The legal father/lineage).
• Visitors: The Magi (Gentile kings recognizing a higher King).
• Conflict: Herod’s political jealousy (The "New Moses" escaping a tyrant).
LUKE’S FOCUS (The Universal Savior)
• Main Character: Mary (The biological mother/experience).
• Visitors: Shepherds (The lowly and outcasts).
• Conflict: The Roman Census (The humble birth vs. Imperial power).
Conclusion
Christian little-o orthodoxy treats the Gospels like two different witnesses to the same car accident. One witness might describe the driver, while the other describes the car. They aren't lying; they are providing a fuller picture. When you account for the 1st-century Roman census laws and Middle Eastern house styles, the "contradictions" vanish.
re: Are people born as an IDIOT, or does it Evolve? Case in Point
Posted by McLemore on 12/17/25 at 9:12 pm to Squirrelmeister
Oh look, I can use ChatGPT too:
I. The Census Objection Overreaches the Evidence
1. Luke does not say Joseph returned to his “place of birth”
Luke states Joseph went to Bethlehem because he was “of the house and lineage of David” (Luke 2:4). That language does not require birthplace, and Luke nowhere claims Joseph was born there.
In the ancient world, family registration, clan affiliation, and land-based enrollment were common—especially in Judea, where land tenure and tribal identity were historically significant. Rome routinely adapted local customs for administrative efficiency.
The objection assumes a modern Western census model, not a first-century provincial one.
2. Roman censuses were not uniform across the empire
It is historically inaccurate to treat Roman censuses as monolithic. As A. N. Sherwin-White, F. F. Bruce, Darrell Bock, and Craig Keener have shown, Rome frequently accommodated local practices, particularly in client kingdoms and newly annexed regions.
Judea had:
• A strong land-inheritance tradition
• Recent political instability
• A unique transition from Herodian to Roman administration
Luke’s account fits a localized enrollment tied to family and land rather than a standardized imperial headcount.
3. The Quirinius problem is not settled
The post treats Luke’s reference to Quirinius as a settled historical blunder. It is not.
Credible orthodox options include:
• A prior administrative role for Quirinius in Syria (attested by inscriptions)
• A broader census process spanning years, with the well-known AD 6 census being its culmination
• A plausible translation of Luke 2:2 as “this census was before Quirinius was governing Syria”
None of these are ad hoc; all are defended in peer-reviewed scholarship.
?
II. The Nazareth Argument Is Historically Weak
The claim that Nazareth “was not populated” during this period is no longer defensible.
Archaeological evidence (including tombs, agricultural installations, and domestic structures) supports a small but real settlement in the late Second Temple period.
The argument fails because it equates “small village” with “nonexistent,” which archaeology does not support.
Luke does not require Nazareth to be a major urban center—only a hometown.
?
III. Genealogical Descent from David Is Not Meaningless
The post’s analogy to Genghis Khan or Charlemagne is genetically clever but historically irrelevant.
1. Biblical genealogy is legal and covenantal, not statistical
Messianic descent in Judaism is:
• Legal (dynastic)
• Covenantal
• Publicly recognized
Joseph’s Davidic lineage mattered not because of DNA frequency but because Davidic kingship passed through legal succession. Adoption and legal paternity were sufficient under Jewish law.
2. Matthew and Luke trace lineage for different theological purposes
Matthew emphasizes royal succession
Luke emphasizes human solidarity
Different genealogies do not imply invention—only different angles on the same historical claim.
?
IV. Matthew and Luke Are Not Contradictory Accounts
The post repeatedly asserts contradiction where selective narration fully explains the differences.
1. Silence is not denial
Luke does not say:
• No Magi came
• No house existed
• No flight to Egypt occurred
Matthew does not say:
• Jesus was not placed in a manger
• Shepherds did not visit
Ancient biographical writing (bios) routinely omitted details irrelevant to the author’s purpose.
2. The “house vs. manger” objection misunderstands time
Luke describes Jesus being laid in a manger at birth.
Matthew describes the Magi visiting later, when the family was in a house.
This is not harmonization gymnastics—it is the most straightforward reading.
?
V. The Magi Argument Proves Symbolism, Not Fiction
Orthodox scholars agree the Magi function symbolically. That does not make them fictional.
1. The Magi were real historical figures
Magoi were:
• Known Persian religious specialists
• Associated with astrology and royal interpretation
• Precisely the kind of figures who would interpret celestial signs as royal omens
Matthew’s account is culturally coherent, not fantastical.
2. Isaiah 45 strengthens, not weakens, Matthew’s case
Yes—Cyrus is called God’s “anointed.”
That is the point.
Matthew presents:
• Gentile representatives acknowledging Israel’s Messiah
• Pagan rulers recognizing what Jerusalem’s leaders miss
Symbolism does not negate historicity. Biblical history routinely interprets real events theologically.
?
VI. “Conflicting Fairy Tales” Is a Philosophical Conclusion, Not a Historical One
The post’s final claim—that these are “conflicting fairy tales”—does not follow from the evidence.
What actually exists is:
• Two independent infancy traditions
• Different narrative emphases
• No direct contradictions
• A shared core: Davidic descent, Bethlehem birth, Nazareth upbringing, divine initiative
The move from “not easily harmonized” to “fiction” is driven by methodological naturalism, not by historical necessity.
As J. Gresham Machen observed:
The problem is not that the Gospel narratives are unhistorical, but that modern critics exclude the supernatural in advance.
?
VII. Mark’s Silence Is Not Evidence Against Matthew or Luke
Mark begins where his theological aim begins: Jesus’ public ministry.
Silence about infancy proves nothing. Paul likewise omits birth narratives without denying the incarnation (cf. Gal. 4:4).
I. The Census Objection Overreaches the Evidence
1. Luke does not say Joseph returned to his “place of birth”
Luke states Joseph went to Bethlehem because he was “of the house and lineage of David” (Luke 2:4). That language does not require birthplace, and Luke nowhere claims Joseph was born there.
In the ancient world, family registration, clan affiliation, and land-based enrollment were common—especially in Judea, where land tenure and tribal identity were historically significant. Rome routinely adapted local customs for administrative efficiency.
The objection assumes a modern Western census model, not a first-century provincial one.
2. Roman censuses were not uniform across the empire
It is historically inaccurate to treat Roman censuses as monolithic. As A. N. Sherwin-White, F. F. Bruce, Darrell Bock, and Craig Keener have shown, Rome frequently accommodated local practices, particularly in client kingdoms and newly annexed regions.
Judea had:
• A strong land-inheritance tradition
• Recent political instability
• A unique transition from Herodian to Roman administration
Luke’s account fits a localized enrollment tied to family and land rather than a standardized imperial headcount.
3. The Quirinius problem is not settled
The post treats Luke’s reference to Quirinius as a settled historical blunder. It is not.
Credible orthodox options include:
• A prior administrative role for Quirinius in Syria (attested by inscriptions)
• A broader census process spanning years, with the well-known AD 6 census being its culmination
• A plausible translation of Luke 2:2 as “this census was before Quirinius was governing Syria”
None of these are ad hoc; all are defended in peer-reviewed scholarship.
?
II. The Nazareth Argument Is Historically Weak
The claim that Nazareth “was not populated” during this period is no longer defensible.
Archaeological evidence (including tombs, agricultural installations, and domestic structures) supports a small but real settlement in the late Second Temple period.
The argument fails because it equates “small village” with “nonexistent,” which archaeology does not support.
Luke does not require Nazareth to be a major urban center—only a hometown.
?
III. Genealogical Descent from David Is Not Meaningless
The post’s analogy to Genghis Khan or Charlemagne is genetically clever but historically irrelevant.
1. Biblical genealogy is legal and covenantal, not statistical
Messianic descent in Judaism is:
• Legal (dynastic)
• Covenantal
• Publicly recognized
Joseph’s Davidic lineage mattered not because of DNA frequency but because Davidic kingship passed through legal succession. Adoption and legal paternity were sufficient under Jewish law.
2. Matthew and Luke trace lineage for different theological purposes
Matthew emphasizes royal succession
Luke emphasizes human solidarity
Different genealogies do not imply invention—only different angles on the same historical claim.
?
IV. Matthew and Luke Are Not Contradictory Accounts
The post repeatedly asserts contradiction where selective narration fully explains the differences.
1. Silence is not denial
Luke does not say:
• No Magi came
• No house existed
• No flight to Egypt occurred
Matthew does not say:
• Jesus was not placed in a manger
• Shepherds did not visit
Ancient biographical writing (bios) routinely omitted details irrelevant to the author’s purpose.
2. The “house vs. manger” objection misunderstands time
Luke describes Jesus being laid in a manger at birth.
Matthew describes the Magi visiting later, when the family was in a house.
This is not harmonization gymnastics—it is the most straightforward reading.
?
V. The Magi Argument Proves Symbolism, Not Fiction
Orthodox scholars agree the Magi function symbolically. That does not make them fictional.
1. The Magi were real historical figures
Magoi were:
• Known Persian religious specialists
• Associated with astrology and royal interpretation
• Precisely the kind of figures who would interpret celestial signs as royal omens
Matthew’s account is culturally coherent, not fantastical.
2. Isaiah 45 strengthens, not weakens, Matthew’s case
Yes—Cyrus is called God’s “anointed.”
That is the point.
Matthew presents:
• Gentile representatives acknowledging Israel’s Messiah
• Pagan rulers recognizing what Jerusalem’s leaders miss
Symbolism does not negate historicity. Biblical history routinely interprets real events theologically.
?
VI. “Conflicting Fairy Tales” Is a Philosophical Conclusion, Not a Historical One
The post’s final claim—that these are “conflicting fairy tales”—does not follow from the evidence.
What actually exists is:
• Two independent infancy traditions
• Different narrative emphases
• No direct contradictions
• A shared core: Davidic descent, Bethlehem birth, Nazareth upbringing, divine initiative
The move from “not easily harmonized” to “fiction” is driven by methodological naturalism, not by historical necessity.
As J. Gresham Machen observed:
The problem is not that the Gospel narratives are unhistorical, but that modern critics exclude the supernatural in advance.
?
VII. Mark’s Silence Is Not Evidence Against Matthew or Luke
Mark begins where his theological aim begins: Jesus’ public ministry.
Silence about infancy proves nothing. Paul likewise omits birth narratives without denying the incarnation (cf. Gal. 4:4).
re: Are people born as an IDIOT, or does it Evolve? Case in Point
Posted by McLemore on 12/17/25 at 9:01 pm to Squirrelmeister
Oh look, someone ChatGPTed Bart Ehrman.
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