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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.

Posted on 7/8/25 at 12:02 pm to
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5728 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

None is expected. Your posts are depressing but serve as a reminder about just how bad this war is.


Right. I do limit the number of those posts to a few a day. I could post many more, but I don't.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5728 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 12:50 pm to
best headline of the day...

Trump: "We get a lot of bulls**t thrown at us by Putin"


Iryna Kutielieva, Alona Mazurenko — Tuesday, 8 July 2025, 19:44

US President Donald Trump has sharply criticised Kremlin leader Vladimir Putin, using strong language to complain that he talks a lot of nonsense.

Source: Trump at a meeting of his cabinet, as reported by the Washington Post

Details: The US president reiterated that the war unleashed by Russia should never have started, before launching into a tirade against Putin.

"We get a lot of bulls**t thrown at us by Putin, if you want to know the truth. He’s very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless," he said.

Asked about the Russia sanctions bill, Trump replied that he is looking at it.

Background:

On 8 July, the Pentagon announced that it is sending additional defensive weapons to Ukraine on the US president's orders.
Axios reported that Trump has ordered 10 Patriot air defence missiles to be shipped to Ukraine and is pressuring Germany to sell one of its Patriot batteries to Ukraine.

Ukrainska Pravda
This post was edited on 7/8/25 at 12:51 pm
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4604 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 12:52 pm to
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4604 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 1:09 pm to
It's starting and it's not going to get better...

quote:

Why Putin’s elites keep dying

quote:

Although I suspect few readers’ hearts will bleed for them, it’s been a bad week for Russian elites. There has been a spate of real or apparent suicides and the arrest of a gold magnate as he prepared to leave the country.
quote:

As the national pie shrinks, the fight to retain the size of your slice increases. Usually, this is through pulling political strings to win contracts or preference, or else reiderstvo, ‘raiding,’ using fake documents or corrupted judges to take over rival companies.

Sometimes, though, more severe methods are used: contract killings are again on the rise, and while most tend to use more unsubtle methods, some ‘suicides’ may be distinctly involuntary.

Yet for every death there are many more arrests of corrupt officials and businesspeople. Putin’s unspoken social contract with the elite is that they can steal, but only within certain limits and only so long as they are loyal to the Kremlin. That is unchanged, but the acceptable limits of personal enrichment and just what ‘loyalty’ means seem to be shifting, and in unpredictable ways. As one Moscow insider put it to me, ‘the elites are willing to stay within the red lines – but what terrifies them is that they don’t know where those lines are anymore.’

This even affects those who were once untouchable. Strukov, for example, was also a powerful figure within the Chelyabinsk region apparatus of Putin’s United Russia bloc, and deputy speaker of regional legislature. Starovoit likewise was a United Russia stalwart and a protégé of Arkady Rotenberg, one of Putin’s childhood friends, and – not uncoincidentally – one of the country’s richest men. So many other recent targets were once feted. Former defence minister Timus Ivanov, just sentenced to 13 years on bribery charges, was a Hero of Russia.

This looks less like a deliberate purge, and more like the convulsions of a system in slow-motion crisis. A business elite increasingly engaged in cannibalistic competition for diminishing assets, a Kremlin that mistrusts the people on whom it depends to run its country and economy, that demands compliance with unspoken, unfixed and unclear rules. It certainly doesn’t mean Putinism is headed for some imminent fall. But it does demonstrate that even as the war machine continues to grind on, the damage being done to the Russian regime is very real.


LINK
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 1:25 pm to
It appears Trump is coming around to the fact that Putin and Russia do not want to live in peace.
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28772 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

It appears Trump is coming around to the fact that Putin and Russia do not want to live in peace.

My impression is that Trump has tired of Putin treating him like he is an easily manipulated moron. While Trump is easily manipulated, the primary rule in such a situation is to not be obvious about it. Putin has been insulting and demeaning Trump since Trump was re-elected. Trump has put up with it for waaaay too long.
This post was edited on 7/8/25 at 1:38 pm
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26851 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

It's starting and it's not going to get better...


I suspect that Putin and his gang of oligarchs are under serious stress with likely shades of the Wagner episode going on.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16112 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

My impression is that Trump has tired of Putin treating him like he is an easily manipulated moron. While Trump is easily manipulated, the primary rule in such a situation is to not be obvious about it. Putin has been insulting and demeaning Trump since Trump was re-elected. Trump has put up with it for waaaay too long.


The situation in the Middle East needed attention first as it presented opportunities never seen in decades with Russian influence gone and Iranian influence going around the bowl and down the hole. This tightens the sphere of influence for Russia to cause problems there.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:01 pm to
My take on the relationship between Trump and Putin.

From the start, Trump recognized the fact that Putin is the ultimate decision maker on there being a peace deal. The US has much more influence on the actions of Ukraine than it has on the actions of Russia. This is why we saw Trump put lots of public pressure on Ukraine in order to bring them into line with Trumps desire for peace. At the same time we were pressuring Ukraine, Trump, realizing we don't have as much leverage with Russia, was playing nice with Putin, and giving public support to Russia's positions. This was all part of his negotiating strategy to broker a peace deal.

He has now realized that it is Russia that is standing in the way of peace and that Putin has been dragging him along for as long as possible.

Before he came into office, Trump was very clear that if Russia were not open to peace, he would give Ukraine more support than Biden did. I don't think Trump wants to do this because it will prolong the war, but Putin has created the situation where that is Trump's only alternative. For those who were paying attention, there are no surprises here. People didn't listen to Trump's early messaging on this and only heard what they wanted to hear.

I believe that Trump badly wants to end this war and he's realized the only way to do this is to put maximum pressure on Russia. He tried it one way and that didn't work, now I suspect we'll see him go the other way with it.


Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28772 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

The situation in the Middle East needed attention first as it presented opportunities never seen in decades with Russian influence gone and Iranian influence going around the bowl and down the hole. This tightens the sphere of influence for Russia to cause problems there.

Iran has been a direct supplier of weapons to Russia for use in Ukraine. The conflicts in these two regions are directly linked. Russia's relationships in the Middle East have put them on the other side of US and Israel.

While it has often been said that Trump has limited attention for briefings, etc., the fact is that American presidents get extremely high quality intelligence briefings every day. Trump knows the score.

I've said it several times and it is still true, Putin and Russia are weaker now than the last time Trump was in office. Trump has a real opportunity to assert American power in several regions of the world in direct opposition to Russian and Chinese influence operations. He may be coming around on this in a way that will be good for the US long term, and also good for Ukraine and the rest of Europe.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:27 pm to
quote:

Before he came into office, Trump was very clear that if Russia were not open to peace, he would give Ukraine more support than Biden did.


Guess we will see if he was serious or if this was just another attempt at a soundbite
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3959 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

It appears Trump is coming around to the fact that Putin and Russia do not want to live in peace.


I'm of the opinion that he knew that... and didn't/doesn't particularly care.

The thing Trump wants most is control.

His previous freeze in Ukraine arms deliveries was to teach them who is in control. When he felt they'd taken enough of a beating from Putin, he resumed it, point made.

But now Ukraine and Europe are getting a little too industrious... if the US cut off Ukraine then the US has absolutely no say and who knows what in Russia might start blowing up. The drone attack on Engels airbase seems to have driven that home. He doesn't want that... he wants to have some control in what Ukraine does.

Same with Iran... he didn't bomb Iran to help Israel, he bombed Iran to stop Israel from bombing Iran and to put himself in control of the situation, in an attack that did not do as much damage as he insists, then he instantly dropped sanctions and helped Iran.

So both could be construed as things that help Putin in a less obvious manner, really.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26851 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

uote:
Before he came into office, Trump was very clear that if Russia were not open to peace, he would give Ukraine more support than Biden did.


Guess we will see if he was serious or if this was just another attempt at a soundbite


Trump is not prone to half measures. He likes to go big and bold.
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

But neither of them posted hour after hour celebrating Ukrainian deaths and destruction. Neither of them are firehosers


Lies.

Cope posts about and celebrates Russian deaths and destruction and even you said is was despicable.

Cope also goes on firehosing binge posting tirades. He does it everyday.

The hypocrisy in this thread is incredible.

Like I said rules for thee and not for me.
This post was edited on 7/8/25 at 3:47 pm
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3959 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

quote:
Before he came into office, Trump was very clear that if Russia were not open to peace, he would give Ukraine more support than Biden did.


Guess we will see if he was serious or if this was just another attempt at a soundbite


yep.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:47 pm to
Trump has proven that he will deal with anybody.

He wanted to cut a deal with. Putin that would stop the war, and at the same time bring Russia closer to the West.

Just thing if Russia were a good citizen, a trading partner, and not an adversary; then China could be addressed by themselves.

Trump tried, but Putin would rather do things the old way and use guns.

Putin is steering Russia right over the cliff. China is lurking to the East and will fill the vacuum.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

Trump is not prone to half measures. He likes to go big and bold.


I don't think he has done anything big and bold in either of his presidencies so far in terms of policy, personally. Especially considering his sales pitch. He has done some great things. Quite a few of them. But nothing that gets me out of my seat to clap.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 3:58 pm to
quote:

Lies. Cope posts about and celebrates Russian deaths and destruction and even you said is was despicable. Cope also goes on firehosing binge posting tirades. He does it everyday. The hypocrisy in this thread is incredible. Like I said rules for thee and not for me.


Lies???? Because I disagree I’m lying?

You sir have a grudge. You are biased. JB was one of a kind. Everyone on the PT could see that.
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
41425 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 5:12 pm to
Chicken deleted the old massive Ukraine thread because of how embarrassing all the liberals in it were making TD look
Posted by SirWinston
Say NO to War
Member since Jul 2014
104464 posts
Posted on 7/8/25 at 5:38 pm to
quote:

From the start, Trump recognized the fact that Putin is the ultimate decision maker on there being a peace deal. The US has much more influence on the actions of Ukraine than it has on the actions of Russia. This is why we saw Trump put lots of public pressure on Ukraine in order to bring them into line with Trumps desire for peace. At the same time we were pressuring Ukraine, Trump, realizing we don't have as much leverage with Russia, was playing nice with Putin, and giving public support to Russia's positions. This was all part of his negotiating strategy to broker a peace deal.

He has now realized that it is Russia that is standing in the way of peace and that Putin has been dragging him along for as long as possible.

Before he came into office, Trump was very clear that if Russia were not open to peace, he would give Ukraine more support than Biden did. I don't think Trump wants to do this because it will prolong the war, but Putin has created the situation where that is Trump's only alternative. For those who were paying attention, there are no surprises here. People didn't listen to Trump's early messaging on this and only heard what they wanted to hear.

I believe that Trump badly wants to end this war and he's realized the only way to do this is to put maximum pressure on Russia. He tried it one way and that didn't work, now I suspect we'll see him go the other way


Spot on. I am not cheering for Russia any longer because of this. They have once again become the baddies.
This post was edited on 7/8/25 at 5:39 pm
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