re: Give teachers a raise....Nah.

quote:

---

Their job is to teach the kids. If the kids don’t know shite, there’s a problem. And all of it isn’t on the parents or even most of it. Not even close.

---

I conditionally agree with this.

quote:

---

I know dozens. The teachers in our area aren’t showing up more than 10 minutes before they have to be for 90% of their days. And they leave the building within 10 minutes of their contract time to leave.

And that’s fine. That’s their agreement with their employer. But we don’t need to pretend they are Mother Theresa reincarnate.

---

I won't call your words a lie because I'm certain you're speaking the truth of what you see where you are, just like I am. I truly believe it really is an area-specific issue.

For my part, our local schools really are among probably the most "conservative-run" schools in the state. We might not get the best educators possible, but the vetting process by the hiring board is almost absurd. They'll do thorough checks on applicants and if they see that their candidate makes a habit of actively marching with people like the pink hats or posting Marxist ideology all over their social media, the application goes no farther.

We're pretty fortunate here, though some level of liberalism is ultimately allowed in because the administration doesn't necessarily want to completely "silence" opposite or conflicting views and ideologies.

quote:

---

More and more students forced into larger class sizes. Teaching 30,40 + kids at once is absurd for most topics.

---

This is just for a self contained teaching schedule. Some teachers, my wife included, are on a blocking schedule. She teaches ELA related subjects while her "partner teacher" teaches the Maths and Sciences. The students rotate between classes mid way through the day. So if each homeroom has 30 kids, the teachers deal with 60 kids each day.

So you can double the problems associated with this:

quote:

---

- Parents are increasingly a fricking nightmare.

- Students are increasingly a fricking nightmare.

- Students who never pass a single class just coast through the system so you have high schoolers operating at a grade school level fricking up class for everyone else.

- Illegals being dumped into classrooms who speak no English and have never been in school before fricking up class for everyone.

---

quote:

---

Public school teachers are passing some of these kids with the bare minimum. Their job is to teach the kids.

---

Their job is to do what their bosses tell them to do, just like what anyone else's job is.

Why do you think kids get passed when they don't know anything?

quote:

---

If the kids don’t know shite, there’s a problem.

---

Oh, there's a problem all right. I've gone into great detail about what the problem is. It isn't teachers.

quote:

---

And all of it isn’t on the parents or even most of it.

---

Like I told the other guy, it is and it isn't. The system is doomed to fail, so essentially, yes, it's a systemic issue.

But the system is doomed to fail in the largest part specifically because it guarantees parents who (apparently) think like you do. "Here's my kid, make sure he knows something. That's what you get paid to do."

"Sir, your child bubbles in the circles on his scantron sheets to make lewd pictures, farts loudly in class 3-4 times a class period, and in four years has never done one homework assignment."

"Not my problem, that's what you get paid for. Hope you get his graduation robe sized correctly, I want those pictures looking good for his Aunt Bebe who can't come to graduation."

"Sir, Jandquadofavious won't be graduating. He has a .04 GPA."

"Well you better fix that. He supposed to be graduating. Y'all were supposed to make sure he was learning, not me. I got a job."

"When we tried to talk to him about it he told us you said he should tell us to !#$@ ourselves, that he not acting white for no one."

"Well, sure I did. That boy don't need to know where Afghanistan is or read about 'effing white people like Shakespeare. Again, teaching that boy is y'all's problem. Look, I'd hate to have to call my lawyer about this."

Exactly what are teachers supposed to do about stuff like that? The government mandates that they pass kids. People constantly threaten to sue the schools.

If you don't think exactly that type of stuff happens constantly, you should talk to some actual teachers.

Now again, I don't think any of that is fixable—it's a natural consequence of the system—and I don't really feel sorry for teachers who chose to go into it because it's pretty common knowledge at this point.

But depending upon the demographics and culture of the school district you find yourself in, you can be a fantastic teacher and your students can still end up knowing next to nothing.

Teachers cannot put a boot up students asses and make them learn. Not anymore. Parents can, but if they won't, then its pretty much game over.

quote:

---

They chose that career

---

And knew when they made the decision to get a degree to be a teacher. They knew what the pay was while they were in school. They could have changed their degrees to a profession that pays more

quote:

---

I claimed that teachers are the only white collar profession that can make $50k/year (a metonym for the broader concept of modest compensation among teachers) without the opportunity to be promoted to a higher salary or higher salaried position based on the quality of their work.

---

Would you not consider things such as promotion to lead teacher, principal, admin etc. a promotion??

I mean a position like AP clerk or Customer service rep, they're never making $50k. They have to get promoted to supervisor or departmental manager.

If you look at the GS pay table, GS-6 and below max out at <$50k per year. That's a MAXXED out step 10 employee. And I really doubt they get the teacher's discount at the local cafe.

There are both loads of government employees making < $50k and loads of teachers with the opportunity to make or already making $50k+ per year

Teachers do not get paid enough for what they do. I don't know about y'all but I would be tempted to punt some of these smart arse kids across the classroom for the way they act and talk. Also dealing with parents has got to be one of the worst things you can be put through. A lot more goes into it than showing up, reading off a power point and "getting off at 3pm".

Also, as others have pointed out, not as many teachers are out there because of the current pay.

quote:

---

Their work continues well past 3pm.

---

No. It doesn’t.

quote:

---

Teachers do not get paid enough for what they do.

---

As I asked someone else upthread, how much should they get paid to do what they do?