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re: Do you think George Bush lied about the WOMD?

Posted on 7/13/21 at 3:50 pm to
Posted by momentoftruth87
Member since Oct 2013
71551 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 3:50 pm to
Tbh it was the deep state, mil ind, and media. The media was setup before first rounds were fired. Everything was setup for evening news. In a part it was conditioning and experimentation. I did multiple tours and I hate GW.
Posted by LuckyTiger
Someone's Alter
Member since Dec 2008
45353 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

Do I need to tell you what the frick you can do with an aluminum tube?


lol
Posted by thermal9221
Youngsville
Member since Feb 2005
13278 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

1. WMD’s were found, and not just the stockpiles we had given him to fight the Iranians. The


I don’t remember them finding anything.
Posted by Nosevens
Member since Apr 2019
10384 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 3:53 pm to
Like all politicians , they don’t know shitt for the most part, their closest advisors lead them down the path . It’s the 3 letter agencies and embedded bureaucrats that do this.
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
112578 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

Not per se. I think the intelligence community did and he just ate their shite


This is the short story. Saddam said 'Make me a nuclear bomb or I'll hang you.'
Scientists said 'We almost have the bomb.' (they were lying for obvious reasons).


Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
68139 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 3:55 pm to
Posted by Pelican fan99
Lafayette, Louisiana
Member since Jun 2013
34811 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 3:59 pm to
No I think he was a useful idiot who was taken advantage of by our intelligence agencies
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
53628 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:00 pm to
They stovepiped the info like Russia collusion.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89595 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:02 pm to
Technically, not a lie. It is very complicated.

First of all, Saddam had shite tons of WMDs - we know this because he used them (mainly chemical weapons) and we found a shite ton of old Soviet stocks leftover from the Iran-Iraq War after the invasion.

Second of all, Saddam had, over the years, pursued various pathways to nuclear weapons (what does a SW Asian nation with more oil than sand need with nuclear "power"?). To a degree, the corruption under him had him believing he was buying more capability than he was actually getting because underlings were stealing the money.

Third, the intelligence was both cherry picked and manipulated. Not just the Western Alliance's intelligence community, but Curveball himself - he was selling the same "intel" (which he was juicing to up the value) to everyone and there isn't a really good deconfliction ("G2X in the Sky" kind of thing) authority across international boundaries to let folks know that this was a single source (however reliable some felt he was, if they all had known that we were going to go to war over the word of, mainly, Curveball, someone might have hit pause).


Now, having said all of that, this is how the world has gone to war for over 100 years now. Half blind, through the smoke and fog, stumbling and bumbling and often times at the behest of unseen forces.
This post was edited on 7/13/21 at 4:06 pm
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
53628 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:03 pm to
PNAC was writing letters to Clinton in 1998.
quote:

It hardly needs to be added that if Saddam does acquire the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction, as he is almost certain to do if we continue along the present course, the safety of American troops in the region, of our friends and allies like Israel and the moderate Arab states, and a significant portion of the world’s supply of oil will all be put at hazard. As you have rightly declared, Mr. President, the security of the world in the first part of the 21st century will be determined largely by how we handle this threat.

Given the magnitude of the threat, the current policy, which depends for its success upon the steadfastness of our coalition partners and upon the cooperation of Saddam Hussein, is dangerously inadequate. The only acceptable strategy is one that eliminates the possibility that Iraq will be able to use or threaten to use weapons of mass destruction. In the near term, this means a willingness to undertake military action as diplomacy is clearly failing. In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy.

We urge you to articulate this aim, and to turn your Administration's attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power. This will require a full complement of diplomatic, political and military efforts. Although we are fully aware of the dangers and difficulties in implementing this policy, we believe the dangers of failing to do so are far greater. We believe the U.S. has the authority under existing UN resolutions to take the necessary steps, including military steps, to protect our vital interests in the Gulf. In any case, American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council.

We urge you to act decisively. If you act now to end the threat of weapons of mass destruction against the U.S. or its allies, you will be acting in the most fundamental national security interests of the country. If we accept a course of weakness and drift, we put our interests and our future at risk.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89595 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:03 pm to
quote:

I don’t remember them finding anything.




Here ya go!

Assuming you believe right wing propaganda from some outfit called "The New York Times"
This post was edited on 7/13/21 at 4:04 pm
Posted by Gaspergou202
Metairie, LA
Member since Jun 2016
13500 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:04 pm to
Before the war all European intelligence sources, Israel, the CIA, and Iran believed Iraq had chemical weapons, and a desire to acquire nukes.

During the war military radio intercepts had Iraqi generals begging Baghdad to release the WMDs. They never did.

Post war it appears that old almost useless stock piles of chemical weapons were hidden through out Iraq. We found many, and very good evidence is that some were smuggled to Syria.

It now appears that while Iraq had WMDs, they were not actually deployable. BUT Iraq was desperately trying to convince Iran and neighbors that they had deployable chemical weapons.

They succeeded with this disinformation campaign beyond their wildest dreams and to their detriment.
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
46248 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:04 pm to
quote:

Its interesting how now almost everyone admits that the war was a mistake. Lots of republicans say it was mistake minus some pro war republicans. but pretty much both parties supported the war during the beginning. So I have a hard time saying bush lied about it. But what was the reasoning for the war at the time?




Bush was mostly trusting his Intel Baws. I know Colin Powell was never the same man after he used that bogus Intel to convince our allies that invading Iraq was the right move. Powell knew within a few weeks after the Iraq invasion that there wasn’t any real threat of Iraqi WMDs.
Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
10490 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:05 pm to
I think it was swamp behavior at the highest level and said it then and still believe it now.

The bushes are deep state operatives
Posted by Figgy
CenCal
Member since May 2020
7240 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

1. WMD’s were found, and not just the stockpiles we had given him to fight the Iranians. The media lied about there being no WMD’s in Iraq.

2. The amount of WMD’s and extend of Saddam’s capabilities were both grossly oversold by our intelligence agencies.

3. I would venture a guess that Bush was lied to rather than was lying personally. GW seemed like a well-meaning baw that was a pawn of a lot of folks with bad intentions.


This is correct.
Posted by 14&Counting
Eugene, OR
Member since Jul 2012
37682 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:05 pm to
I think bush was lied to and he wasn't bright enough to call them out on their bullshite.
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13353 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:06 pm to
quote:

Its interesting how now almost everyone admits that the war was a mistake.


The execution of the war was a mistake. We should have bombed the dogshit out of them, to include all the presidential palaces, and all known family mansions, and all radar and rocket installations. Then we should have paused, and asked if they wanted to start upholding the UN agreements they signed on to, stop firing missiles at our fighters in the no-fly zones, and stop paying bounties to the families of suicide bombers who kill Americans.

If we didn't get immediate agreement and compliance, level 15-20 mosques, starting in Baghdad, and radiating out. Ask again. Pretty soon, we would have had the answer we wanted, without a single boot on the ground.
Posted by Stidham8
Member since Aug 2018
6991 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:14 pm to
The deep state lied to him to have more Middle East involvement/oil and to sell billions in military equipment.

Win-win for all involved. Except American citizens.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67163 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

st war it appears that old almost useless stock piles of chemical weapons were hidden through out Iraq. We found many, and very good evidence is that some were smuggled to Syria.


Saddam’s second in command of his air force has testified that the deployable chemical weapons were moved to Syria about a month before the Coalition invasion. Saddam did not expect the U.S. to completely topple his regime, so he basically ordered his soldiers not to fight too hard. He wanted them to withdraw, live to fight another day, and then retrieve his weapons stash which was more useful for quelling dissidents than combating real armies like the Americans and British.

Some of those weapons were deployed by the Assad regime during the Syrian Civil War while others were deployed by ISIS forces who had seized Syrian weapons depots.
Posted by Zarkinletch416
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Member since Jan 2020
8396 posts
Posted on 7/13/21 at 4:18 pm to
Naw. Somebody peddled bad intelligence. We have Frank Church and his democRAT pals to blame for that. Senator Frank Church (D-ID) and his pals basically dismanted our intelligence gathering capability. Church's Senate Hearing resulted in the vetting of our intelligence gathering sources (spys) embedded in enemy countries.

America never really recovered from the damage done. Heck, our domestic intelligence couldn't even pick up on a bunch of Saudi terrorists interested in learning to fly Passenger Jets. You say, they wanted to learn how to take off, but not how to land the thing? Dah!! How about that debacle with the Tsarnaev brothers?

This fricking country is a mess. The FBI is now more interested in hunting down and isolating perceived "White Supremacist" than dealing with terrorist threats from abroad.

Elections have consequences.

This post was edited on 7/17/21 at 11:57 am
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