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Bombing Civilians and war
Posted on 3/19/22 at 8:52 pm
Posted on 3/19/22 at 8:52 pm
All these do gooders that want to jump into a hot mess in Ukraine. Calling Putin a thug and War Criminal might want to pick up a History book on WWII. Roosevelt, Churchill, and Truman want to have a word with you. Does Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki just for starters ring a bell???
17
Posted on 3/19/22 at 8:55 pm to 4Ghost
Also Obama and Biden…..I mean there is a wife in Afghanistan saying what about my husband and 10 related children?
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:01 pm to 4Ghost
I agree with your OP.
However, enter the gif - Yeah, but this is different.
Since WW2, it seems most civilized countries have tried to wage war without purposefully targeting civilians.
An argument can be made that it is also why many smaller or weaker belligerents choose to set up shop near civilian areas, i.e., hospitals, schools and apartment buildings which sometimes end up getting bombed.
However, enter the gif - Yeah, but this is different.
Since WW2, it seems most civilized countries have tried to wage war without purposefully targeting civilians.
An argument can be made that it is also why many smaller or weaker belligerents choose to set up shop near civilian areas, i.e., hospitals, schools and apartment buildings which sometimes end up getting bombed.
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:36 pm to 4Ghost
A fricking red-pilled Jarhead! I love it!
Semper Fi!
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:38 pm to Speckhunter2012
quote:
An argument can be made that it is also why many smaller or weaker belligerents choose to set up shop near civilian areas, i.e., hospitals, schools and apartment buildings which sometimes end up getting bombed.
Also the civilian population is by and large legally considered armed combatants fwiw
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:44 pm to OBReb6
Know what all those had in common? The "War Criminals" won the war and therefore set the tone for the peace. The losing side was tried for war crimes.
I'm not certain of your point but it fails miserably as another commonality is that none of those guys started the war, they were drawn into it by the aggressor.
frick, Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. We need apologize for none of them.
I'm not certain of your point but it fails miserably as another commonality is that none of those guys started the war, they were drawn into it by the aggressor.
frick, Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. We need apologize for none of them.
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:46 pm to 4Ghost
It's why I'm sitting this shite out. I can't bring myself to be a hypocrite. I didn't bitch at the time, when our establishment was bombing civilians in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Afghanistan. I kept quiet, I didn't care. I can't bitch when other countries do it. It would make me feel that I'm holding other countries to a higher standard than I hold my own country.
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:48 pm to 4Ghost
They passed out guns to any Ukrainian that wanted them
The entire country is for the war effort
I see it the same way I see Japan.
There isnt a civilian here. If you are working for the war machine in a direct capacity you have waived your "civilian" status.
You provide supplies. You post support. You make guns. You use guns. Not a civilian.
The entire country is for the war effort
I see it the same way I see Japan.
There isnt a civilian here. If you are working for the war machine in a direct capacity you have waived your "civilian" status.
You provide supplies. You post support. You make guns. You use guns. Not a civilian.
This post was edited on 3/19/22 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:50 pm to Speckhunter2012
quote:
Since WW2, it seems most civilized countries have tried to wage war without purposefully targeting civilians.
Whoops!
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:51 pm to Speckhunter2012
quote:
Since WW2, it seems most civilized countries have tried to wage war without purposefully targeting civilians.
You don't consider the worst offender civilized then, right? And that would be YOÜR GOVERNMENT.
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:51 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
Also Obama and Biden…..I mean there is a wife in Afghanistan saying what about my husband and 10 related children?
Posted on 3/19/22 at 9:56 pm to 4Ghost
JDAMS and Tomahawks didn’t exist back during WW2. All weapons was ‘dumb’ back then.
Also none of the Allied nations started the war and then started pounding the civilian population out of frustration because they could not come up with any other military strategy that worked.
Lastly Hitler and the other Axis powers went after civilians first. Hitler would launch buzz bombs at London and if it hit civilians then oh well. So the British took off the gloves and so did the US after we joined the war. You are not really making a good argument. These situations are nowhere close to the same thing. You are trying to make an equivalence and comparison that are not related.
Also none of the Allied nations started the war and then started pounding the civilian population out of frustration because they could not come up with any other military strategy that worked.
Lastly Hitler and the other Axis powers went after civilians first. Hitler would launch buzz bombs at London and if it hit civilians then oh well. So the British took off the gloves and so did the US after we joined the war. You are not really making a good argument. These situations are nowhere close to the same thing. You are trying to make an equivalence and comparison that are not related.
Posted on 3/19/22 at 10:36 pm to 4Ghost
quote:
All these do gooders that want to jump into a hot mess in Ukraine. Calling Putin a thug and War Criminal might want to pick up a History book on WWII. Roosevelt, Churchill, and Truman want to have a word with you. Does Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki just for starters ring a bell???
First of all move to Russia if it is all exactly the same.
Second of all Putin invaded a peaceful nation and the US was dragged unwilling into the greatest war in human history. We did what we had to win.
Posted on 3/19/22 at 10:52 pm to RollingwiththeTide
quote:
Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki
Hmmmm
quote:
Hitler would launch buzz bombs at London and if it hit civilians then oh well. So the British took off the gloves and so did the US after we joined the war.
So the ends justify the means……when it suits the country?
Let’s stop kidding ourselves, as a former Marine Infantry Officer, I can say the United States has no room to throw stones…..
Posted on 3/19/22 at 10:56 pm to RollingwiththeTide
quote:
Also none of the Allied nations started the war and then started pounding the civilian population out of frustration because they could not come up with any other military strategy that worked.
The allied bombing campaign was intended to break the will of the German and Japanese people’s, and end the war cheaply (for us). The idea went back to AirPower theorists in the 30s.
They overestimated the effectiveness of their weapon.
But it’s why we destroyed whole cities, and killed perhaps a million people.
The bombing campaigns didn’t work.
This post was edited on 3/19/22 at 11:00 pm
Posted on 3/19/22 at 11:13 pm to ABearsFanNMS
Ok then good. As a former Marine Officer you should damn sure be able to answer this question. How may times did you or anyone above or below you call in an Airstrike of a hospital, apartment building, grocery store or any other civilian target with no cause to do so? Did you ever call in artillery on any other civilian targets? You and I both know that you didn’t because it’s a war crime to just attack civilian targets. It would amount to an illegal order that no officer would follow because they would not wanna go to Leavenworth.
The only argument that you made that would kind of stick is when we used the bomb. Nobody had ever seen a weapon like that before and could not predict its power. By using it you know better than me because you served that invading Japan would have cost countless lives on both sides including civilians. You are trying to act like there is some moral equivalence as to what we do and have done and what the Russians are doing now. There isn’t. The Allies didn’t wake up the day after the declared war and say he let’s go bomb a bunch of civilians. They didn’t except for the bomb.
The only argument that you made that would kind of stick is when we used the bomb. Nobody had ever seen a weapon like that before and could not predict its power. By using it you know better than me because you served that invading Japan would have cost countless lives on both sides including civilians. You are trying to act like there is some moral equivalence as to what we do and have done and what the Russians are doing now. There isn’t. The Allies didn’t wake up the day after the declared war and say he let’s go bomb a bunch of civilians. They didn’t except for the bomb.
This post was edited on 3/19/22 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 3/19/22 at 11:46 pm to 4Ghost
quote:
All these do gooders that want to jump into a hot mess in Ukraine. Calling Putin a thug and War Criminal might want to pick up a History book on WWII. Roosevelt, Churchill, and Truman want to have a word with you. Does Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki just for starters ring a bell???
Going back 70 years for a what aboutism argument?
Pathetic and it's a intellectually
bankrupt argument and what it's some the leftist do continually.
Why didn't purposely target civilains with dumb bombs in Iraq I or II or in Afghanistan.
Times and tactics have changed since WWII
Posted on 3/20/22 at 12:34 am to 4Ghost
Just not a good argument.
Technology has allowed us to change what warfare means...and what's agreed upon strategy.
Technology has allowed us to change what warfare means...and what's agreed upon strategy.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 12:38 am to RollingwiththeTide
quote:
How may times did you or anyone above or below you call in an Airstrike of a hospital, apartment building, grocery store or any other civilian target with no cause to do so?
Never, but you are taking the word of Ukrainians that have been shown to lie already about things.
quote:
Did you ever call in artillery on any other civilian targets?
Yes
quote:
It would amount to an illegal order that no officer would follow because they would not wanna go to Leavenworth.
You have no clue what the frick you are talking about. If you are taking fire from a “civilian” target it’s fair game and I had no problem giving the FFE to take it out in order to protect friendlies!
quote:
The Allies didn’t wake up the day after the declared war and say he let’s go bomb a bunch of civilians.
Dresden says hello…..oh and how many Iraqi’s did we end up killing because Sadam was buddies with OBL and hiding WMD!
You think war is black and white. That is how our media is portraitist it. Well I am here to tell that it is not. It is shades of gray and the victors get to rewrite history to suit them after the fact.
This post was edited on 3/20/22 at 12:42 am
Posted on 3/20/22 at 12:47 am to 4Ghost
quote:
Bombing Civilians and war
Civilian casualties are a part of war.
Since forever.
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