Started By
Message

re: Bombing Civilians and war

Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:06 pm to
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
15759 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:06 pm to
The US bombed civilian targets in Desert Storm. I know because I was there and saw the evidence with my own eyes.

Anyone who thinks we haven’t bombed civilians has their had buried in the sand.
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
15759 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:10 pm to
quote:

How may times did you or anyone above or below you call in an Airstrike of a hospital, apartment building, grocery store or any other civilian target with no cause to do so?


This happened often in Desert Storm. Shelters, farmhouses, manufacturing facilities. And even if a hospital wasn’t directly bombed the bombs falling near the buildings weakened the structures and destroyed the infrastructure to the building.
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71385 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:11 pm to
quote:

So the ends justify the means……when it suits the country?


The winner of the conflict always makes the rules and decides what is justified and what is not.


quote:

as a former Marine Infantry Officer


And this somehow makes you an expert on the subject? The United States hasn't fought a real war in several generations. Since the end of the Korean War most of our conflicts have been waged against farmers armed with AK-47s.
Posted by rooster108bm
Member since Nov 2010
3249 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

And even if a hospital wasn’t directly bombed



We bombed a hospital in Iraq and in Afghanistan.
Posted by davyjones
NELA
Member since Feb 2019
37062 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:16 pm to
Here’s another hot take nobody will or should care about: our old friend “predicate” comes to mind inasmuch as final assessment of civilian casualties is based directly on the credibility of the predicate reasoning for going in hard to begin with. If the justification for war is reasonable and in good faith, then civilian casualties, although regrettable, are part and parcel of the madness that is war.

On the other hand, civilian casualties resulting from a leader suddenly going full retard and doing a full blown war for no apparent reason……those civilian casualties are frowned upon.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:20 pm to
quote:

The United States hasn't fought a real war in several generations. Since the end of the Korean War most of our conflicts have been waged against farmers armed with AK-47s.


WTF is a “real” war?

Masses of uniformed armies from belligerent nations meeting on a battlefield is largely an anomaly of the Westphalian era.

Guerrilla and insurgency tactics are some of the oldest forms of warfare.

This post was edited on 3/20/22 at 4:21 pm
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

The US bombed civilian targets in Desert Storm. I know because I was there and saw the evidence with my own eyes.

Anyone who thinks we haven’t bombed civilians has their had buried in the sand.


What do you know?

You didn’t fight in a “real” war.

Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71385 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

Masses of uniformed armies from belligerent nations meeting on battlefield is an anomaly of the Westphalian era.


The "Westphalian era"? Are you referring to the treaty that ended the Thirty Years' War? If so...

quote:

Masses of uniformed armies from belligerent nations meeting on battlefield is an anomaly of the Westphalian era.


This doesn't make any sense.
This post was edited on 3/20/22 at 4:23 pm
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
140023 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:40 pm to
The war crimes narrative is yet another that will come back to bite the US
Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
24315 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:43 pm to
quote:

All these do gooders that want to jump into a hot mess in Ukraine. Calling Putin a thug and War Criminal might want to pick up a History book on WWII. Roosevelt, Churchill, and Truman want to have a word with you. Does Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki just for starters ring a bell???

Moral equivalency right?
Posted by rooster108bm
Member since Nov 2010
3249 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:54 pm to
quote:

The war crimes narrative is yet another that will come back to bite the US


I don't even think it's a narrative to anyone who knows about how war and combat works and what's a legitimate target.

Seems to be nothing more than social media parroting an agenda.

Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71385 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:16 pm to
quote:

Moral equivalency right?


There is no morality to war. That's why it's to be avoided at all costs. If one is to go to war, it should be for right and just reasons. Say what you want about the Ukrainian government and its corruption but Russia invaded them, not the other way around. Putin is the aggressor and he's attacking because he wants to restore the borders of the old Russian Empire. That's what it comes down to at the end of the day. He opposes NATO on his borders not because he sees them as a threat to Russian sovereignty but because it prevents him from expanding westward into the Baltic states, Romania, and Poland.
Posted by rooster108bm
Member since Nov 2010
3249 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:22 pm to
quote:

There is no morality to war. That's why it's to be avoided at all costs. If one is to go to war, it should be for right and just reasons.


This is correct.

quote:

Say what you want about the Ukrainian government and its corruption but Russia invaded them, not the other way around. Putin is the aggressor and he's attacking because he wants to restore the borders of the old Russian Empire. That's what it comes down to at the end of the day. He opposes NATO on his borders not because he sees them as a threat to Russian sovereignty but because it prevents him from expanding westward into the Baltic states, Romania, and Poland.


All of this^^^^ is nothing more than what you've been told or seen on tv. You or I have nothing more than speculation as to what is actually happening or your personal opinion.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
140023 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:28 pm to
quote:

Seems to be nothing more than social media parroting an agenda.

Several in Congress appear to be coaching the parrots.
Posted by rooster108bm
Member since Nov 2010
3249 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:29 pm to
quote:

Several in Congress appear to be coaching the parrots


Show me one of them that doesn't love some Raytheon money.
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71385 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:35 pm to
quote:

All of this^^^^ is nothing more than what you've been told or seen on tv.


I have not watched a single minute of TV coverage since the war began. What you quoted me saying is my own personal opinion based on the man's previous statements.
Posted by rooster108bm
Member since Nov 2010
3249 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:37 pm to
quote:

based on the man's previous statements.


Show me where he stated this(He opposes NATO on his borders not because he sees them as a threat to Russian sovereignty but because it prevents him from expanding westward into the Baltic states, Romania, and Poland.)
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
41390 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 6:03 pm to
quote:

Lastly Hitler and the other Axis powers went after civilians first.


Actually, the first time German bombers hit London was a mistake and Hitler was not happy. Then British Bomber Command bombed Berlin leading Hitler to start targeting London and other urban centers.

I've never understood why we self-flagellate when we hit civilian targets. The US military does its best to avoid it, but it's war. shite happens.
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
24857 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 6:08 pm to
quote:

The "Westphalian era"? Are you referring to the treaty that ended the Thirty Years' War? If so...




I’m referring to European wars fought after the Peace of Westphalia, which set political precedents for recognizing national sovereignty and established norms of inter-state diplomacy between European nations in the modern era. Clausewitz’s assumption that war itself is a rational act and a reflection of a nation’s national interests was largely an outgrowth of Westphalian notions of statehood — that nation-states represent the unified interests of citizens, armies and the heads of government.

quote:

This doesn't make any sense.


What doesn’t make any sense is your claim that the United States has not fought a “real” war in many generations: insurgency and guerrilla warfare is “real” war. Such asymmetrical forms of warfare is indeed the norm in the history of human conflict: the Roman Empire was ultimately toppled by the asymmetrical warfare tactics of the Northern European and Central Asian tribes.

Recommend reading: The Transformation of War by Martin Van Crevald.

Creveld, a famed Israeli historian and military theorist, argues that contemporary warfare will increasingly be characterized by low-intensity conflicts that eschews high-tech weaponry and armies equipped by nation-states. Instead, armed conflict will involve amorphous factions with allegiances based on tribal, ethnic and religious identities: such warfare will blur the lines between civilians and solders, while also calling into question the Western distinction between terrorism and war.




This post was edited on 3/20/22 at 9:42 pm
Posted by 850SaintsGator
Pensacola
Member since Sep 2021
2360 posts
Posted on 3/20/22 at 6:20 pm to
quote:

All these do gooders that want to jump into a hot mess in Ukraine. Calling Putin a thug and War Criminal might want to pick up a History book on WWII. Roosevelt, Churchill, and Truman want to have a word with you. Does Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki just for starters ring a bell???



It’s not being a “do goodie” to hate the spread of Communism- it used to be a Republican idea until Trump.

Also, your Abomb references- they attacked us and we ended the war . Putin invaded a sovereign nation to spread communism- he is acting civilians because he has no soul
first pageprev pagePage 3 of 4Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram