- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Bombing Civilians and war
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:06 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:06 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
The US bombed civilian targets in Desert Storm. I know because I was there and saw the evidence with my own eyes.
Anyone who thinks we haven’t bombed civilians has their had buried in the sand.
Anyone who thinks we haven’t bombed civilians has their had buried in the sand.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:10 pm to RollingwiththeTide
quote:
How may times did you or anyone above or below you call in an Airstrike of a hospital, apartment building, grocery store or any other civilian target with no cause to do so?
This happened often in Desert Storm. Shelters, farmhouses, manufacturing facilities. And even if a hospital wasn’t directly bombed the bombs falling near the buildings weakened the structures and destroyed the infrastructure to the building.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:11 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
So the ends justify the means……when it suits the country?
The winner of the conflict always makes the rules and decides what is justified and what is not.
quote:
as a former Marine Infantry Officer
And this somehow makes you an expert on the subject? The United States hasn't fought a real war in several generations. Since the end of the Korean War most of our conflicts have been waged against farmers armed with AK-47s.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:14 pm to thebigmuffaletta
quote:
And even if a hospital wasn’t directly bombed
We bombed a hospital in Iraq and in Afghanistan.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:16 pm to thebigmuffaletta
Here’s another hot take nobody will or should care about: our old friend “predicate” comes to mind inasmuch as final assessment of civilian casualties is based directly on the credibility of the predicate reasoning for going in hard to begin with. If the justification for war is reasonable and in good faith, then civilian casualties, although regrettable, are part and parcel of the madness that is war.
On the other hand, civilian casualties resulting from a leader suddenly going full retard and doing a full blown war for no apparent reason……those civilian casualties are frowned upon.
On the other hand, civilian casualties resulting from a leader suddenly going full retard and doing a full blown war for no apparent reason……those civilian casualties are frowned upon.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:20 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The United States hasn't fought a real war in several generations. Since the end of the Korean War most of our conflicts have been waged against farmers armed with AK-47s.
WTF is a “real” war?
Masses of uniformed armies from belligerent nations meeting on a battlefield is largely an anomaly of the Westphalian era.
Guerrilla and insurgency tactics are some of the oldest forms of warfare.
This post was edited on 3/20/22 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:22 pm to thebigmuffaletta
quote:
The US bombed civilian targets in Desert Storm. I know because I was there and saw the evidence with my own eyes.
Anyone who thinks we haven’t bombed civilians has their had buried in the sand.
What do you know?
You didn’t fight in a “real” war.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:22 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
Masses of uniformed armies from belligerent nations meeting on battlefield is an anomaly of the Westphalian era.
The "Westphalian era"? Are you referring to the treaty that ended the Thirty Years' War? If so...
quote:
Masses of uniformed armies from belligerent nations meeting on battlefield is an anomaly of the Westphalian era.
This doesn't make any sense.
This post was edited on 3/20/22 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:40 pm to 4Ghost
The war crimes narrative is yet another that will come back to bite the US
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:43 pm to 4Ghost
quote:
All these do gooders that want to jump into a hot mess in Ukraine. Calling Putin a thug and War Criminal might want to pick up a History book on WWII. Roosevelt, Churchill, and Truman want to have a word with you. Does Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki just for starters ring a bell???
Moral equivalency right?
Posted on 3/20/22 at 4:54 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The war crimes narrative is yet another that will come back to bite the US
I don't even think it's a narrative to anyone who knows about how war and combat works and what's a legitimate target.
Seems to be nothing more than social media parroting an agenda.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:16 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Moral equivalency right?
There is no morality to war. That's why it's to be avoided at all costs. If one is to go to war, it should be for right and just reasons. Say what you want about the Ukrainian government and its corruption but Russia invaded them, not the other way around. Putin is the aggressor and he's attacking because he wants to restore the borders of the old Russian Empire. That's what it comes down to at the end of the day. He opposes NATO on his borders not because he sees them as a threat to Russian sovereignty but because it prevents him from expanding westward into the Baltic states, Romania, and Poland.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:22 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
There is no morality to war. That's why it's to be avoided at all costs. If one is to go to war, it should be for right and just reasons.
This is correct.
quote:
Say what you want about the Ukrainian government and its corruption but Russia invaded them, not the other way around. Putin is the aggressor and he's attacking because he wants to restore the borders of the old Russian Empire. That's what it comes down to at the end of the day. He opposes NATO on his borders not because he sees them as a threat to Russian sovereignty but because it prevents him from expanding westward into the Baltic states, Romania, and Poland.
All of this^^^^ is nothing more than what you've been told or seen on tv. You or I have nothing more than speculation as to what is actually happening or your personal opinion.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:28 pm to rooster108bm
quote:Several in Congress appear to be coaching the parrots.
Seems to be nothing more than social media parroting an agenda.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:29 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Several in Congress appear to be coaching the parrots
Show me one of them that doesn't love some Raytheon money.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:35 pm to rooster108bm
quote:
All of this^^^^ is nothing more than what you've been told or seen on tv.
I have not watched a single minute of TV coverage since the war began. What you quoted me saying is my own personal opinion based on the man's previous statements.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 5:37 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
based on the man's previous statements.
Show me where he stated this(He opposes NATO on his borders not because he sees them as a threat to Russian sovereignty but because it prevents him from expanding westward into the Baltic states, Romania, and Poland.)
Posted on 3/20/22 at 6:03 pm to RollingwiththeTide
quote:
Lastly Hitler and the other Axis powers went after civilians first.
Actually, the first time German bombers hit London was a mistake and Hitler was not happy. Then British Bomber Command bombed Berlin leading Hitler to start targeting London and other urban centers.
I've never understood why we self-flagellate when we hit civilian targets. The US military does its best to avoid it, but it's war. shite happens.
Posted on 3/20/22 at 6:08 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The "Westphalian era"? Are you referring to the treaty that ended the Thirty Years' War? If so...
I’m referring to European wars fought after the Peace of Westphalia, which set political precedents for recognizing national sovereignty and established norms of inter-state diplomacy between European nations in the modern era. Clausewitz’s assumption that war itself is a rational act and a reflection of a nation’s national interests was largely an outgrowth of Westphalian notions of statehood — that nation-states represent the unified interests of citizens, armies and the heads of government.
quote:
This doesn't make any sense.
What doesn’t make any sense is your claim that the United States has not fought a “real” war in many generations: insurgency and guerrilla warfare is “real” war. Such asymmetrical forms of warfare is indeed the norm in the history of human conflict: the Roman Empire was ultimately toppled by the asymmetrical warfare tactics of the Northern European and Central Asian tribes.
Recommend reading: The Transformation of War by Martin Van Crevald.
Creveld, a famed Israeli historian and military theorist, argues that contemporary warfare will increasingly be characterized by low-intensity conflicts that eschews high-tech weaponry and armies equipped by nation-states. Instead, armed conflict will involve amorphous factions with allegiances based on tribal, ethnic and religious identities: such warfare will blur the lines between civilians and solders, while also calling into question the Western distinction between terrorism and war.
This post was edited on 3/20/22 at 9:42 pm
Posted on 3/20/22 at 6:20 pm to 4Ghost
quote:
All these do gooders that want to jump into a hot mess in Ukraine. Calling Putin a thug and War Criminal might want to pick up a History book on WWII. Roosevelt, Churchill, and Truman want to have a word with you. Does Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki just for starters ring a bell???
It’s not being a “do goodie” to hate the spread of Communism- it used to be a Republican idea until Trump.
Also, your Abomb references- they attacked us and we ended the war . Putin invaded a sovereign nation to spread communism- he is acting civilians because he has no soul
Popular
Back to top


2




