re: Biden blowing up the pipeline would do more to fight &quot;globalism&quot; than anything Trump

Posted by Bjorn Cyborg

Member since Sep 2016

35562 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro

quote:
What is so wrong about supporting an innocent nation that was invaded for no justified reason?

Because I don't care. Just as I wouldn't care if Ukraine invaded Russia.

I care only about how it affects the United States, rather than who wins or any sense of fairness or compassion.

We shouldn't be involved, give money or generally care.

This post was edited on 9/28/22 at 11:43 am

Posted by cwill

Member since Jan 2005

54755 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:36 am to LNCHBOX

quote:
Change out oweo to whatever retard poster you've heard of, then answer my question.

I did, but you obsessed over the poster.

Posted by Bjorn Cyborg

Member since Sep 2016

35562 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro

quote:
When has NATO ever used force without UNSC approval?

Whether it's been done before is completely irrelevant.

I don't necessarily believe Putin's NATO excuse, but IF it is true, to believe he would take solace in the disputed interpretation of U.N. and NATO bylaws is foolish. Especially since the United States does not believe that Russia or China have veto power over NATO actions.

The entire idea that any NATO member would accept non-NATO members having veto power over NATO actions is ridiculous at best, and insane at worst.

Posted by Bjorn Cyborg

Member since Sep 2016

35562 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:42 am to SlowFlowPro

quote:
international agreements

Yes.

quote:
International laws

No.

The very idea that Russia can leave the UN, and no longer adhere to these "laws" proves that they aren't laws.

Posted by SlowFlowPro

With populists, expect populism

Member since Jan 2004

477226 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:44 am to Bjorn Cyborg

quote:
disputed interpretation

I told you your article is outdated this was litigated during the Iraq invasion and NATO did not participate. They did participate in Afghanistan when they had un security council support, which included Russia supporting NATO being in Afghanistan.

quote:
Especially since the United States does not believe that Russia or China have veto power over NATO actions.

They do because they have the UN security council veto power to authorize NATO's aggressive actions. Member countries of NATO will not engage in aggression with NATO unless the security council approves it. This issue is litigated with Iraq and France won, hence freedom fries.

NATO is a defensive pact without the UN security council requesting NATO to act on behalf of the UN.

quote:
The entire idea that any NATO member would accept non-NATO members having veto power over NATO actions

Not defensive actions, aggressive actions. You have to make that distinction because it's very important both the legality and this discussion.

Posted by SlowFlowPro

With populists, expect populism

Member since Jan 2004

477226 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:44 am to Bjorn Cyborg

quote:
The very idea that Russia can leave the UN, and no longer adhere to these "laws" proves that they aren't laws.

Then you can think of it as an agreement if that little rhetoric need exists. It's still the same thing from a conceptual level.

Posted by Bjorn Cyborg

Member since Sep 2016

35562 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:50 am to SlowFlowPro

If you were Putin, would you take solace in NATO abiding by it's rules if you were genuinely concerned about a NATO country on your border?

These rules have been litigated, changed, updated, disputed, etc. I just posted the first article that popped up. It does appear that it is outdated. But there are hundreds of articles on this topic, with vastly different opinions, interpretations, thoughts on what NATO would do in certain situations.

The idea that this is just some ironclad thing is silly.

Posted by Bjorn Cyborg

Member since Sep 2016

35562 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:51 am to SlowFlowPro

The difference between agreements and laws is far from rhetorical.

Aren't you an attorney?

Posted by Azkiger

Member since Nov 2016

28172 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:52 am to SlowFlowPro

quote:
The US and EU being at odds with each other would literally rewrite the world order and unwind anything that could ever be imagined as "globalist".

What have the Germans said about this? I've yet to see any bad blood.

Don't be mistaken and think German leaders care about their own citizens, they wouldn't have an open borders policy similar to America's if they did.

Posted by SlowFlowPro

With populists, expect populism

Member since Jan 2004

477226 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:54 am to Bjorn Cyborg

quote:
If you were Putin, would you take solace in NATO abiding by it's rules if you were genuinely concerned about a NATO country on your border?

I'm not irrational like Putin's PR and I don't think he's sincere about his alleged concerns. He's created a public relations excuse so that people will defend or at the least not attack his alleged justifications.

quote:
The idea that this is just some ironclad thing is silly.

Well it would help if there was any precedent that in any way made it seem like NATO would (not could) be aggressive on its own. I keep asking and no one can cite an example. In the past when this started and people totally weren't defending Putin they would bring up other NATO incursions will not realizing that the security council, and often Russia itself, approved these incursions

Posted by omegaman66

greenwell springs

Member since Oct 2007

27200 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:54 am to SlowFlowPro

You fail to grasp the reality. They want globalism and educated people that have tasted some form of freedom and have an education that taught them history are people they do not want around. They would prefer everyone in the US and Europe to be gone or changed into a third world country.

They want you obedient. They want you poor and struggling.

When people say stuff like, that only hurts theirselves they are lumping the politicians of country X into a group that includes the citizens of country X. That is wrong.

Do you dumb fricks think that North Korea policies are something their "King" really thinks makes his country better and stronger? Of course not. But he is the king of that country and has 100% control. He lives in luxury and doesn't care if his people starve. Sadam Hussein even said it out loud. World leaders do not care about the people they rule over.

Bigger fish have told them what to do and they have bought in to the elite idea because it keeps them alive and in power.

Remember the ruler of Libya. Remember him falling in line for a while. But then he said frick the US and its dollar. I will set up my own... Africa's own system. We do not need you. And he was right. Lots of resources, they didn't need the US. But they did need the US to not kill him.

He got out of line and Hillary's clan used the USA Military to kill him.

Bottom line, when a country has a leader that doesn't do what is best for their country. Stop thinking their motives are pure. They have joined forces with the dark side. Can yall not see that the left is trying to destroy the country that I grew up in? Cam yall grasp that they HATE your guts?

This post was edited on 9/28/22 at 1:39 pm

Posted by SlowFlowPro

With populists, expect populism

Member since Jan 2004

477226 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 11:57 am to Bjorn Cyborg

quote:
The difference between agreements and laws is far from rhetorical.

Not really, unless you think in non-democratic terms where citizens are subjects.

People have a hard time conceptualizing international law because it's broken so often without consequence but there are plenty of Nations who FAFO that it often has consequences.

This is why the period after the collapse of the Soviet Union when the liberal world order that dominates the world today was created is so important. We had two major conflicts in the 90s, Iraq and Serbia, which established the order of things. It was very helpful in preventing more unlawful aggression by bad actors and has led to a piece that's developed humanity to a point that we've never seen before

Posted by Taxing Authority

Houston

Member since Feb 2010

63500 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:00 pm to SlowFlowPro

quote:
I did respond to Decatur

quote:
There has been one "Biden puppet" in this thread.

You forgot about yourself.

Posted by SlowFlowPro

With populists, expect populism

Member since Jan 2004

477226 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:05 pm to Taxing Authority

quote:
You forgot about yourself

Wut

Posted by Snipe

Member since Nov 2015

16731 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:06 pm to FlexDawg

quote:
Biden and Nuland are on video literally saying they were going to do it at the beginning of the year.

Yea, Biden say a lot of dumb stuff, well actually everything he says is dumb but there's no way this castrated administration has the intelligence or back bone to actually DO anything. Not that doing that would have been a smart thing to do.

Putin heard Bidens rambling and decided to to it himself because errrybody now will say "look Biden did it"

Putin is smarter than all of you lemmings.

Posted by Bjorn Cyborg

Member since Sep 2016

35562 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:07 pm to SlowFlowPro

quote:
Putin's PR

You don't have to believe Putin is being honest to have this discussion.

You are using this UN/NATO rules for action as a REASON why he is not being honest. He very well may be being dishonest, but there is no way some UN bylaw is the reason. I'm sure he believes that NATO and the U.S. would ignore that if they wanted to, and he's probably right.

Posted by Clames

Member since Oct 2010

19578 posts

Posted on 9/28/22 at 12:11 pm to SlowFlowPro

quote:
AKA, the literal opposite of globalism and what Trump was promoting.

You are literally retarded.