re: Baptist Pastor removes Muslim from praying on church property.

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Nobody said humility was the only purpose of the crucifixion. Atonement and humility are not mutually exclusive concepts unless your theology is unusually flimsy.

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I see what you are saying. But no humility was not at all the reason He died. It was not a thought that went into the Eternal Decree of the Covenant of Grace. Humility would be an effect of the cross and not the cause of the cross. The atonement for sin was the only reason for the sacrifice of Christ. There are no other reasons that lead Christ to that cross.

Think of it this way, the Old Testament sacrifices were a foreshadow of the cross. The High Priest did not sacrifice once a year to make his people more humble, he did it for the atoning of sins.

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But Christianity also explicitly presents the cross as the ultimate model of humility, self-sacrifice, mercy, and love. Philippians 2 literally describes Christ humbling Himself unto death, even death on a cross.

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Again, humility is an effect, not the cause of the cross. What you are speaking of is the fruit of Spirit which we get because of the work on the cross to forgive and atone for sins. You can not ever get past the fact that salvation was the sole purpose of the cross. We are to be humble because we have the Spirit of Christ, that is what empowers humility. Christ did not die on the cross so people would be humble, He died for the forgiveness of sins. I think you may have cause and effect a little backwards.

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It was a rebuke against self-righteous hypocrisy.

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Which has nothing to do with pointing out false and damning teachings. You threw it up with the implication one is to call nothing out at all.

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But notice who received the harshest rebukes: not outsiders praying differently, not ordinary sinners, but religious people weaponizing righteousness, puffed up with certainty, contempt, and public humiliation.

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Those who twisted Scripture for man made reasons in order to mislead people and to accrue more power. This has nothing to do with calling out false teaching...which is EXACTLY what Christ did and what we are commanded to do to. So yeah, calling our the vile demonic religion of Islam is certainly inline with New Testament teachings. I am a little confused as to where you thought you were going with this.

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He also wasn’t a man who told outsiders to go pray by a dumpste

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What the...what?

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Standing for “truth” is not the same thing as behaving with hostility and then baptizing it with Bible verses afterward. Christ preached truth and mercy, conviction and humility. If your defense of Christianity consistently looks more like contempt for outsiders than Christ’s treatment of them, that’s probably worth examining.

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So you have a new age Jesus that sings Kum-by-ya and affirms all things unless He appears "insensitive." That's cute, but not the God of the Bible. Christ came indeed to separate outsiders and to call them to Him. You seem like you have an unbliblcal Universalist theology, which is rubbish.

Matthew 10:34–39 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”

Matthew 25:32: " All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."

John 15:19: "If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. Because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

John 3:16–18 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”

Verses on being separate:

2 Corinthians 6:17: "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."

Romans 12:2: "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

Verses on calling out false teachings:

Matthew 7:15–16: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits."

Ephesians 5:11: "Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."

Galatians 1:8-9: But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

So yes we are to stand against false and destructive teachings and do so clearly and boldly.

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CrystalPreserves

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you maga folk

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???

First, my faith in Jesus of Nazareth and the Word of God predates MAGA by decades and if the very memory of MAGA is banished in 5s, my faith is unchanged. Not about MAGA. Period.

Second, I think you are sorely underestimating Islam. It started in violence; is spread by violence. It is inherently violent. If perverts wanted to shoot a porn scene "quietly" in the parking lot dressed in Muslim garb, the pastor shouldn't shoo them away? If only Islam was that.

Finally, the principle latent in the examples cited are very much applicable. Jesus forcibly expelled those who were perverting true worship (is Islam any different?). And do you think Islam intends less than Elymas in damning souls? You write, "A Muslim quietly praying in a parking lot is neither of those things." It may be "yet" in the case of the first and is exactly that in the second. The principle is not limited to the self-righteous "inside his own religious system." It transcends that.

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Yeah, that person has an agenda. No use arguing with.

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Yeah you're probably right. What that person is saying is naive at best, dangerous at worst. It's bizarre.

No matter how much Western liberal simps for Islam...Muslims will absolutely end them when they get power. Look at how they treat Christians and others in places where they have power. Guess it's just mostly peaceful and misunderstood beheadings and slaughter.

Fair enough, strike “maga folk” from what I said.

But there’s a big problem with your argument: you keep switching between “Islam as a religion” and “a single Muslim guy praying quietly.” Those are not automatically the same thing.

Your porn analogy actually shows the weakness here. A porn shoot is a public sexual act. A guy praying is… a guy praying. Those situations are nowhere close, so you had to swap in something intentionally outrageous as an attempt to make your point work.

And your Jesus/Paul comparisons still don’t fit the facts. Jesus cleared the Temple because people were corrupting and exploiting worship inside Judaism’s holiest site. Paul rebuked Elymas because he was actively trying to stop someone from accepting Christianity.

The Muslim in this case was not corrupting a church service, not disrupting worship, not trying to convert anyone, not preventing anyone from following Christianity. He was praying in a parking lot.

Simple question:

Did Jesus treat every non-Jew, pagan, Samaritan, or religious outsider he met like a Temple corrupter or an Elymas figure? No. He argued with people. He challenged people. He talked with people. He corrected people. But He did not treat every outsider as if they justified Temple-cleansing mode.

So here’s the real question: do you honestly believe a peaceful Muslim praying in a parking lot deserves to be treated the same way Jesus treated corrupt Temple profiteers and Paul treated a man actively trying to block conversion? Because that’s the comparison you’re making.

This is the way.

You just posted a wall of verses proving points nobody disputed.

Nobody argued Christianity teaches universalism. Nobody argued Christians should affirm all beliefs. Nobody argued Christians shouldn’t oppose false teaching.

The actual question was much simpler: does mocking a peaceful Muslim praying in a parking lot accurately reflect the example of Jesus?

And notice what happened: instead of answering that, you dumped verses about discipleship, judgment, separation from worldly values, and false prophets. Fine. Christianity rejects Islam theologically. Established.

But you’re still skipping the key issue.

Jesus saying following Him brings division is not a blank check for public contempt toward every religious outsider.

“Be separate from the world” is not “tell outsiders to pray by the dumpster.”

“Beware false teachers” is not “treat every Muslim quietly existing in America like a ravenous wolf.”

Simple question:

When Jesus encountered religious outsiders, pagans, Samaritans, tax collectors, sinners, and Romans, did He generally lead with ridicule and humiliation, or with challenge, conversation, invitation, and moral confrontation?

You keep proving Christianity rejects false teaching. No one missed that memo. The debate is whether your application of those verses actually matches the behavior of the person you claim to follow.

awesome. We need more of this

Let me take my preacher over to a mosque and have him give me communion. What do you think happens?

Ten years + ago, this would be a nothing burger. However, in today's world, with Muslims being super aggressive in pushing their faith / beliefs across the country, it's hard to give this Muslim a pass on his intentions. What possible reasonable reason could he give for what he tried to do where he did??? His faith led him to pray in front of a Christian church??