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Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:07 pm to JimEverett
quote:
For illegals to be the cause then the effect would have to have accelerated in recent years. The numbers just do not support that.
I didn't say it was the only cause.... but a flat denial is extremely naive. The supply of labor vs cost is the same principal as the supply of widgets.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:07 pm to Broke
quote:
Broke
quote:
I was an adjunct economics professor for 20 years.
Hmmmmm,,,,
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:10 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Only 45%?
You left out that GDP per capita has increased over 200%. Median personal wages and median personal income growing less than 1/4 of total production signals a problem.
Production gains are funneling through the economy to fewer and fewer people.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:10 pm to LEOPOLD2
quote:so workers who have seen dramatic increases in wages don’t have access to tools that increase their productivity and devalue their labor while the workers who have seen stagnant wages have access to tools that increase their productivity and devalue their labor?
No. It's simply to demonstrate the silliness of the argument from your OP image that repeats the tired idea that greater productivity today over the past represents an increase in the value of the worker.
This post was edited on 11/3/26 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:11 pm to el Gaucho
quote:Indeed.
They lived better lives than us
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:13 pm to NC_Tigah
Why are you posting pictures of suffering under capitalism and saying that capitalism is better than monarchism
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:17 pm to LARancher1991
quote:this one. And I’m interested in why people seem so committed to the current state of our economy. You can see from the abundance of hostility in this thread that the mere suggestion that we can improve our economy is met with absolute disdain and opposition. I don’t get it.
the current state of capitalism in the US?
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Also, in the scenario where the artificially low wages of illegals are replaced by higher wages of Americans, total wages (nationally) would likely decrease a bit, due to inefficient allocation of resources due to paying more for lower-level products (the consumable goods).
If illegals suppress wages and replacing them with (somewhat) higher paid American workers, there may be a tick up in consumer prices but that doesn't automatically mean total wages paid to Americans would decline.
Moreover, you're ignoring a substantial piece of the benefit to replacing illegals with American workers - there'd be a commensurate reduction in gov't assistance to unemployed/underemployed Americans, plus we'd see an increase in payroll and income tax revenue.
If an employer paying an illegal $15 per hour now pays an American $20 per hour for the same work, the additional $5/hr isn't an economic loss. That's income transferred to an American worker, who spends, saves and pays taxes in America. Illegals send about 20% of their US earnings back home.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:25 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:I think there’s a lot of random factors that I don’t know what to call other than luck. Like the young age of our country, for example. And our relative isolation from real threats due to the size and position of our country. The excitement and innovation that accompanies novelty when establishing our country. I think all of those factors played a much bigger role in how we got to our exceptional status than people are typically willing to admit.
Now come on Cubs. We are taking about entire nations. You are well aware of the statistical impossibility of your "luck" attribution when spread over the vast vast majority of our 350 million individual inhabitants. Or the converse attribution of "poor luck" accounting for underperformance of other 1st world societies which in past generations were on par or more affluent than the US.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:25 pm to el Gaucho
quote:
Why are you posting pictures of suffering under capitalism and saying that capitalism is better than monarchism
You need more?
They had it great.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:25 pm to 4cubbies
Small mind. Small thinker.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:28 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
this one. And I’m interested in why people seem so committed to the current state of our economy. You can see from the abundance of hostility in this thread that the mere suggestion that we can improve our economy is met with absolute disdain and opposition. I don’t get it.
You believe a push towards "Marxian economics" equates to a "suggestion that we can improve our economy" or a viable way we might possibly do so?
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:33 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
so workers who have seen dramatic increases in wages don’t have access to tools that increase their productivity and devalue their labor while the workers who have seen stagnant wages have access to tools that increase their productivity and devalue their labor
You do realize that nobody in this thread is fooled by your pretense that all you're doing is asking questions when it's obvious that your question is designed as an argument? I'm just hoping you realize that. Nevertheless. Correct. Workers with the least stagnant wages are the ones who still provide a higher percentage of the overall productive value Compared to the tools versus others Create this isn't exactly rocket science because that's exactly what Has been the case since the dawn of time. I realized this seems to hurt your little emotions but your emotions really don't matter
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:35 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
You can see from the abundance of hostility in this thread that the mere suggestion that we can improve our economy is met with absolute disdain and opposition.
The abundance of hostility is from your dishonesty discussion approach.
We can definitely improve our economy ... but it doesn't start with any Marxism, Socialism, Communism, etc.
It starts with a lot of hard decisions that you and your like oppose ...
- Close the borders
- End offshore for manufacturers, increase tariffs
- End H1B visas
- Force work for entitlement benefits (even if its at your local McDonalds)
etc ... basically, Nationalism on steroids which is why you got Trump 2x and you'll get more with Vance in 2028 and 2032 ...
The problem is all the bleeding hearts who think we need to be the world's:
- Doctors
- Farmers
- Policemen
etc.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:42 pm to beerJeep
quote:
Capitalism has single-handedly pulled more people out of poverty than any other economic system. It has made the poor of today live like the kings of yesteryear.
And not just here in the US. The world’s poor are boiling out of poverty, powered by the US economy.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:44 pm to Penrod
I brought that up specifically on page 3
Cubbies replied to the post, but completely ignored that part of it
Cubbies replied to the post, but completely ignored that part of it
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:44 pm to Penrod
Shhh. Some in this thread believe that is offensive.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:47 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Those are neither accidental, nor lucky. All the Americas shared that experience. Australia, South Africa, etc. did as well.
The excitement and innovation that accompanies novelty when establishing our country.
But there are similar examples. Ireland, traditionally the poorest of the British Isles adopted a socioeconomic system anathema to anything Kenneth Saltman would support. 50yrs ago, prior to the Celtic Tiger Era, median Irish income was ~60% that of the UK (which includes Northern Ireland).
Today, median Irish income is roughly 130% that of the UK and the differential with their Northern Ireland brethren is even higher. That amazing transition has zero to do with luck or geography. It has to do with a society-wide change in approach.
This post was edited on 11/3/26 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 11/3/26 at 4:55 pm to 4cubbies
quote:I'm not sure what your point is with this angle. Labor values itself.
access to tools that increase their productivity and devalue their labor?
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