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re: Would the Union Army have been strong enough to beat British after Civil War?

Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:13 am to
Posted by TheFonz
Somewhere in Louisiana
Member since Jul 2016
22737 posts
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:13 am to
Wasn't the professional British Army of the time relatively small, and relied on the Royal Navy and colonial troops/militia to secure the Empire?

The British would have had to get their troops, equipment, animals, food, etc. across the Atlantic to Canada. I believe the Union Navy would have given them a run for their money and screw up their logistics pretty good. On the field, the Union had more men and were battle-hardened. I think they would have matched the British Army commander for commander, man for man talent-wise and would have defeated them.
This post was edited on 2/7/25 at 10:14 am
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
56858 posts
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:28 am to
Screw Canada. We could've taken India away from them. Better yet, Gibraltar.
Posted by Cosmo
glassman's guest house
Member since Oct 2003
129173 posts
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:29 am to
quote:

Close. William the Conqueror (or the Bastard, if you prefer) successfully invaded England in 1066.




Posted by Cracker
in a box
Member since Nov 2009
19085 posts
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:35 am to
It’s a numbers game
Posted by Locoguan0
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2017
7004 posts
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:44 am to
In 1865, they were on par with European powers. My 1866, most of the Union army was disbanded. By the 1870s, European armies had left the U.S. in the dust with modernized weaponry, tactics, and organization.
Posted by antibarner
Member since Oct 2009
26058 posts
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:49 am to
The Union could have taken North America had they chosen to in 1865. Stormed Canada and run the French out of Mexico.
Posted by Harry Boutte
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2024
3702 posts
Posted on 2/7/25 at 11:02 am to
quote:

Didn't the British have a much bigger advantage during the Revolutionary War?

In the last battle of the war at Yorktown the French army had more soldiers in the field than either the British or the Americans.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
69612 posts
Posted on 2/7/25 at 11:07 am to
quote:

By the 1870s, European armies had left the U.S. in the dust with modernized weaponry, tactics, and organization.


Yep.

There was no beating the Prussians, French, or Russians on the battlefield by the 1870s. By that time the U.S. Army had gone from a conventional force to a force focused on fighting asymmetrical warfare against the Native Americans.
Posted by Sus-Scrofa
Member since Feb 2013
10426 posts
Posted on 2/7/25 at 11:14 am to
quote:

Calm down, Harry Turtledove


The real question is what could Lee have done if time travelers had given him AK47s and heart pills.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94735 posts
Posted on 2/8/25 at 7:32 am to
The USN couldn't have projected power well enough in the 1860s & 1870s.
Posted by The Boat
Member since Oct 2008
175732 posts
Posted on 2/8/25 at 7:39 am to
If we’re doing what ifs, one that actually makes sense and has some historical relevance is could the Union have defeated a combined Confederate and British force during the War.
Posted by Cuz413
Member since Nov 2007
9921 posts
Posted on 2/8/25 at 7:46 am to
One of the main reasons Lincoln issued the EP was to deter Britain and France from aiding the South. Both countries had emancipated their slaves around a decade before the war. So the Union had to be concerned enough about them to keep them out.

If Britain wanted to join the war, their time would have been at the beginning of the war. Their navy would have been able to blockade the North and likely free up Union blockades in the South (which was the main driver to the fall of the South).
Posted by Islandboy777
DAUPHIN ISLAND
Member since Jul 2023
2982 posts
Posted on 2/8/25 at 9:13 am to
I still think it was a way they could avoid the blockade in the gulf of mexico. Think of all the bayous and backwater canals from texas to florida.

Shallow draft boats could have made it through.
Posted by Giantkiller
the internet.
Member since Sep 2007
24479 posts
Posted on 2/8/25 at 9:26 am to
quote:

Though they are currently willingly allowing themselves to be invaded as are we


At least we're doing something about it here. England is now under a Islamic caliphate though. But that's apparently what they want.
Posted by xGeauxLSUx
United States of Atrophy
Member since Oct 2008
22556 posts
Posted on 2/8/25 at 9:27 am to
quote:

Their navy would have kicked our arse pretty much at any time pre- world wars.

Even considering the iron clads the US had?
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
72734 posts
Posted on 2/8/25 at 9:39 am to
quote:

I dunno, Max Boot, before he went crazy with TDS, wrote the Union Navy at the end of the war was equal to the British Navy.
He was wrong.

The US Navy through the American Civil War built itself to respond to the task at hand: blockade enforcement off the coasts of the US.

Not engagements with state-of-the-art full-sized experienced armed enemy vessels thousands of miles away from a nearest friendly port.

The Suez Canal didn’t open until 1867, the Brits were used to long distance voyages. Their Navy in 1865 would have absolutely waxed the US Navy.

It’d be like asking a competent cross country team to box against an experienced boxing team.

The Brits very existence as a free State had by that time relied on being really, really good at projecting naval power for centuries.

It was their national sport.
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
44093 posts
Posted on 2/8/25 at 9:40 am to
quote:

Their navy would have kicked our arse pretty much at any time pre- world wars.



The Union built 42 ironclads during the war, with a set goal of 95 if the war had continued another two years.

The British completed two by 1863, The Warrior and The Black Prince.
Posted by SpringBokCock
Columbia, SC
Member since Oct 2003
3192 posts
Posted on 2/9/25 at 2:08 pm to
The US ironclads of the time were monitors with very little freeboard. Suitable for coastal and riverine actions only. They were not built for ocean voyages, let alone combat in any kind of sea.
Posted by HarryBalzack
Member since Oct 2012
16229 posts
Posted on 2/9/25 at 2:11 pm to
Yes.

Eta: uk did offer to defend them if the Canadians recognized Britain's control over them.

I don't think anyone wanted a part of the US army in 1865, though. It was 1 million strong and battle tested.
This post was edited on 2/9/25 at 2:19 pm
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
104281 posts
Posted on 2/9/25 at 2:22 pm to
Another factor, the overwhelming majority were volunteers enlisted for rhe duration of the current conflict. They could have said frick it I didnt sign up for this, and gone home.
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