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re: Would a high-speed rail system work in the US?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:32 am to NOLALGD
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:32 am to NOLALGD
quote:
I would politely say the major issue is our car culture, we expect to get in a car to go everywhere, park right next door to our destination, and then drive home and park in our private driveways. We even expect this in our dense urban areas.
A lot of this is actually driven by government policy, especially the post WWII creation/expansion of the interstate system and suburban sprawl development.
That's a good point. People in this country would be aghast at having to walk 4-5 blocks from their home to a tube/subway station. In many other places, that's nothing.
1
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:38 am to Woodreaux
Texas has high speed rail in the works between Dallas and Houston, 90 minutes is what they say it would take. Its a private company developing this so no need for government involvement except as a regulatory body. Its not under construction yet but much of the engineering and property acquisition has been done. Of course, the right-wing is vehemently opposed to rail so there are still some battles to be fought to get this done.
Texas Rail Project
Texas Rail Project
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:40 am to TigerCub
quote:
That's a good point. People in this country would be aghast at having to walk 4-5 blocks from their home to a tube/subway station. In many other places, that's nothing.
But that's assuming there even is a train/subway station within 4-5 blocks from their home.
"Car culture" didn't just spontaneously materialize from nowhere. It's because our cities and the surrounding suburbs were built around the system of roads.
European towns and cities "came of age" before mass production of automobiles, and developed much differently than most U.S. cities.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:43 am to NolaTiger52
Yeah, but frick Cheyenne!
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:46 am to UGATiger26
Yeah I think people overstate how much we're addicted to car travel.
It's made necessary by the circumstances. Don't get me wrong, many of us don't want to live in NYC where having a car is impractical and you can't pull up to your house to unload a bunch of groceries - but I think that's a different standard.
I think if you could walk a few blocks or grab an uber for 6 bucks to catch a train to Savannah for a night, the number of people who would "prefer" to take a car because that's what they're used to would be less than some here indicate.
Car culture is too often a cop out for public transportation advocates who ignore some of the barriers. I don't prefer a car to MARTA. I prefer a car to walking 4 blocks to a MARTA bus stop, taking a bus, changing trains, getting off at a station that is still a 10 minute drive from my office. And I live in the city.
It's made necessary by the circumstances. Don't get me wrong, many of us don't want to live in NYC where having a car is impractical and you can't pull up to your house to unload a bunch of groceries - but I think that's a different standard.
I think if you could walk a few blocks or grab an uber for 6 bucks to catch a train to Savannah for a night, the number of people who would "prefer" to take a car because that's what they're used to would be less than some here indicate.
Car culture is too often a cop out for public transportation advocates who ignore some of the barriers. I don't prefer a car to MARTA. I prefer a car to walking 4 blocks to a MARTA bus stop, taking a bus, changing trains, getting off at a station that is still a 10 minute drive from my office. And I live in the city.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:49 am to Zappas Stache
quote:
Of course, the right-wing is vehemently opposed to rail
Please show me which right wing groups are vehemently opposed to a private company developing a rail line?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:52 am to UGATiger26
the Northeast Corridor on Amtrak makes money...
there are some improvements that need to be made to speed things up, but it'll cost a lot of money to do so...
there are some improvements that need to be made to speed things up, but it'll cost a lot of money to do so...
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:53 am to NolaTiger52
I don't even think a full high speed system is needed. It just needs to maintain an average speed of about 80 mph - the availability of private roomettes, comfortable seats, and lack of security/TSA headache would make it more appealing than most regional flights.
I think we could make diesel powered trains appealing to travelers if we can just pick up their top speed from about 79 mph to 110 mph. They will average out to about 80 mph if you include stops.
For true high speed, I think there's legitimate appeal for it on the west coast, northeast, and the Chicago area. Texas may also be able to pull it off.
I think we could make diesel powered trains appealing to travelers if we can just pick up their top speed from about 79 mph to 110 mph. They will average out to about 80 mph if you include stops.
For true high speed, I think there's legitimate appeal for it on the west coast, northeast, and the Chicago area. Texas may also be able to pull it off.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:56 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I think if you could walk a few blocks or grab an uber for 6 bucks to catch a train to Savannah for a night, the number of people who would "prefer" to take a car because that's what they're used to would be less than some here indicate.
Maybe, but I think more than anything it'd be route and travel reason specific. Like if I was going to Atlanta for a Braves game and a high speed train ran between Birmingham and Atlanta, not sure I'd take a train. Assuming the train station would be downtown, I'd still have to get to Cobb County and MARTA doesn't run up there. So I'd be dependent on buses or Uber through traffic.
But if I was going for a United or Falcons game or concert at State Farm, absolutely I'd take the train. Even going to visit friends that live in Va Highlands, I'd opt for the train.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:57 am to member12
quote:
and lack of security/TSA headache
There is already a push to add TSA security practices to Amtrak. That would get rapidly accelerated if rail traffic increased.
People need to have their security theater to feel safe.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:57 am to NolaTiger52
It will never work cause Louisiana wants 20 stops between Baton Rouge and New Orleans 
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 11:58 am
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:09 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I think if you could walk a few blocks or grab an uber for 6 bucks to catch a train to Savannah for a night, the number of people who would "prefer" to take a car because that's what they're used to would be less than some here indicate.
Car culture is too often a cop out for public transportation advocates who ignore some of the barriers. I don't prefer a car to MARTA. I prefer a car to walking 4 blocks to a MARTA bus stop, taking a bus, changing trains, getting off at a station that is still a 10 minute drive from my office. And I live in the city.
Absolutely agreed. I would love to use trains for inter and intra-city travel. For example, I live in Athens, and for years I've talked about how awesome it would be if there was a rail line that connected Athens and Atlanta.
Before things like Uber and Lyft came along, that idea had no legs whatsoever. Because even once you got to Atlanta you'd either have to cab it (i.e. more money, and therefore possibly an ultimately greater expense than just driving your car) or walking (not feasible for 90% of the places you might go). Yes, each place has public transportation, but it's just not robust or intuitive enough for a casual traveler to feel comfortable utilizing.
Now that things like Uber exist, it's more feasible for small-scale regional travel. But it will still come down to cost and convenience. Realistically, I'd say a ticket from Atlanta to Orlando (where my in-laws live) would need to be less than $15 round-trip for me to consider not just taking my own car. I don't see that happening.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:10 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
Which wouldn't work in this scenario unless you build dedicated rail for said train.
Amtrak uses the freight lines' rails. The freight trains have right of way over the Amtrak trains, so if there are freight trains coming Amtrak stays in the side rail until they're done passing.
Right.
"high-speed" trains in the US really just be renamed "high-capacity lines". The acela/high speed line in the northeast corridor really just has an extra line (usually 3-4 total) so that they do not have to wait on freight train traffic that is usually prioritized due the freight companies owning the lines. Additionally, Amtrak does own and operate some of the lines in the Northeast corridor to avoid this.
There are expansion plans for the "high-speed" line which would extend from DC down to richmond, VA first and eventually to charlotte. They want to expand it further with hubs across the us.
But again, these aren't bullet trains. These are just 80mph trains (when there aren't geographic/physical limitations) on a line with few stops and minimal waiting due to higher capacity.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:10 pm to Centinel
quote:
Please show me which right wing groups are vehemently opposed to a private company developing a rail line?
Texans Against High Speed Rail are a right-wing group. Their membership is rural white people and in Texas, that is a right-wing demographic.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:12 pm to Zappas Stache
quote:
Texans Against High Speed Rail are a right-wing group. Their membership is rural white people and in Texas, that is a right-wing demographic.
So in reality it's Texas landowners who don't want to sell their land and don't want it seized by eminent domain requests from the private company, not a "right wing" group.
Gotcha.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:15 pm to Centinel
quote:
not a "right wing" group.
It is a right wing group. There are private toll roads and train tracks all over texas built with very little opposition.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:16 pm to NolaTiger52
quote:
Europe and China have mastered the railroads.
China's railways are only worth a shite 100 miles from the coast. They're dogshit everywhere else.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:17 pm to Zappas Stache
quote:
It is a right wing group.
So any group, who just happens to be made up of people who may or may not be conservative, automatically becomes a "right wing group" and all that is attached with that label? No matter the subject matter of why the group was formed?
I mean I'd think a group that is opposed to crony capitalism wouldn't exactly be right wing in the commonly understood sense. Especially since it's a private corporation wanting to build the line.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:26 pm to UGATiger26
quote:
Now that things like Uber exist, it's more feasible for small-scale regional travel. But it will still come down to cost and convenience. Realistically, I'd say a ticket from Atlanta to Orlando (where my in-laws live) would need to be less than $15 round-trip for me to consider not just taking my own car. I don't see that happening.
I'd probably pay a fair amount to take the train somewhere in Florida. I mean, if I could hop a train to Tampa with the wife for 60 bucks and we could read and get a couple of beers instead of driving, I'd do it.
To me, where this all breaks down is that the trains would probably be poorly run and with unappealing folks. I don't want to be harsh, but Americans aren't good stewards of "public" spaces for the most part, and I'd expect this to be no different unless you could price out people. This is especially true in the South, unfortunately. Of course, class of travel could help some there.
And my point on that isn't simply "gross, I don't want to be around those people," but when there is a lot of that underlying "ehhh" attitude toward it, it will impact adoption. MARTA has a lot of problems, but certainly the perception of it being dirty/gross has and continues to be a major obstacle.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:35 pm to NolaTiger52
quote:
Why do we think it won’t work?
Distances.
Texas is larger than France. Montana is larger than Germany. Wyoming is larger than all of the UK. New Mexico is larger than Italy.
That and cheap gasoline, and cars are much more flexible on their routing.
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